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Raspberry Pi's V3DV Vulkan Driver Can Now Run The Zink OpenGL Translation Layer

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  • #11
    Originally posted by andre30correia View Post
    It is an issue with HW limits. Videocore VI hw only supports up to 4 multiple render targets.
    For OpenGL ES that is enough, as the minimum value for GL_MAX_DRAW_BUFFERS is 4 (see table 6.27 on OpenGL ES 3.0 spec).
    But for OpenGL 3.0 that is not enough, as the minimum value for GL_MAX_DRAW_BUFFERS is 8 (see table 6.51 on OpenGL 3.0 spec).
    Let's hope that in the next RPi SoC they fix this up, amongst other things. But that's a year away at least I would hazard to guess.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by brent View Post

      In the far, far away future, and only maybe.
      MasOS is ahead of the game here. Zink may be the only generic way to get OpenGL to work properly on it and people are working on making that work now.

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      • #13
        Are they gonna help hooking OpenGL 3.1 ES to Zink. So they could run the whole android ecosystem over their Vulkan driver. Stressing the full hw capability out.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by jojo7887 View Post

          Wait, what? I always thought the GPU supported OpenGL 4.x. It's kinda weird to me that it doesn't support it but supports Vulkan (not saying that supporting Vulkan is bad thing of course). I'm just genuinely surprised.
          Vulkan is low-level, so it's many times faster to write the driver.
          ​​​​​​
          Originally posted by OneTimeShot View Post

          In future Zink will be the only way to run old OpenGL software on newer hardware. It isn't going to be worth writing both a Vulkan and an OpenGL driver.
          Yes, especially when OpenGL is not only developed anymore (OpenGL Next = Vulkan), it will not even be on many future hardware:

          1. On macOS it's deprecated and will be removed in a future version (like we had with 32bit recently). Zink + MoltenVK will be the free opensource way to run OpenGL (next to the commerical closed source MoltenGL).

          2. On Windows 10 on ARM desktop OpenGL will be via Zink to Direct3D driver API translation (I think we even had an article here how Microsoft is cooperating with Zink on bringing OpenGL to Windows 10 on ARM).

          I don't worry about the performance, because that's only a CPU overhead. And those are faster and faster each year (much faster than the legacy software was made for). Been there done that - we had it with 3D API wrappers for decades (e.g. emulating 3Dfx Glide, or OpenGL on the first generation of 3D cards, which could do only Direct3D).

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          • #15
            This is a Linux/open source news site and is reporting news about open source technologies. Myself and probably others are interested in Zink, if you are not interested you can ignore the news article.

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            • #16
              V3DV and Zink are the final reason for me to get again a Raspberry Pi. Hopefully more of the available Zink patches are merged to Mesa before the 20.3 feature freeze.

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              • #17
                On a side note, the Raspberry PI 400 is a great move. I couldn't believe it when I saw it, and even though I don't need it I might buy one just for the history. I mean really, $70 for an all in one computer? That's awesome. I can imagine a lot of low income adults and kids finally getting an acceptable Internet only PC now, and that's a good thing for everyone.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by OneTimeShot View Post
                  In future Zink will be the only way to run old OpenGL software on newer hardware. It isn't going to be worth writing both a Vulkan and an OpenGL driver.
                  There is another factor here. Old opengl software can expect particular opengl hardware quirks. So you might have a GPU that can run opengl and vulkan yet for some old software be using a custom version of Zink to emulate some historic hardware quirk.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by muncrief View Post
                    On a side note, the Raspberry PI 400 is a great move. I couldn't believe it when I saw it, and even though I don't need it I might buy one just for the history. I mean really, $70 for an all in one computer? That's awesome. I can imagine a lot of low income adults and kids finally getting an acceptable Internet only PC now, and that's a good thing for everyone.
                    I do not class the Raspberry PI 400 is a great move. They have build for cost and the device lost some very important things. Lets say you took the device to a $170 instead of $70 dollars this would give a little more money for case so it could be a little larger so be a full size keyboard. That slightly higher cost would give room for full mechanical keys with full travel. Yes there is enough cost saving there to do replaceable keys model. That the keyboard.

                    Next is why does the Raspberry PI 400 only have 4G of ram. Remember you can buy 8GB Raspberry Pi 4 for 75 dollars then you have to case it.

                    Aim at 200 dollars for complete unit like the Raspberry PI 400 you can have a true mechanical keyboard and 8GB of ram. Yes aiming at 200 dollars for the unit would still be cheaper than buying Raspberry PI 4 8G + Case + Mechanical keyboard invidually.

                    I do hope there is a successor to the Raspberry PI 400 built without corner cutting as in having proper key switches and truly maxed out ram for the soc.

                    I really do think it would be nice and warped to have a full sized mechanical keyboard that to a PC can act as a keyboard but also includes a embedded Raspberry PI so can function as a standalone computer. Could be a really warped macro keyboard. That would something like a Raspberry PI 400 could have been built with a little more budget.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

                      I do not class the Raspberry PI 400 is a great move. They have build for cost and the device lost some very important things. ...
                      Well, Raspberry could certainly build more expensive versions with more capability and features, and certainly those with the skills to put together their own systems might be better off doing just that.

                      But for the average consumer without technical skills, and people with low incomes, perhaps with children, the PI 400 is a great start. For many people even $70 is a lot of money, and $170 would be out of the question. For example, imagine struggling parents with two children. For $140 they could provide them with systems well suited for Internet access, but for $340 they could not.

                      But I'm with you in hoping that Raspberry continues this trend, and will start making a variety of ready to run systems, with more advanced hardware and features, for those without the skills to build them themselves. I think it would be a great new source of income for Raspberry, and provide an equally great benefit for consumers.

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