Raspberry Pi's V3DV Vulkan Driver Can Now Run The Zink OpenGL Translation Layer

[pal666]

I think it will be the future for many future drivers, specially for SoC-GPUs. Not because it is technically the best solution. But you do not develop 2 drivers.

you do not develop 2 drivers now. you share all hardware-specific code

[pal666]

In future Zink will be the only way to run old OpenGL software on newer hardware. It isn't going to be worth writing both a Vulkan and an OpenGL driver.

opengl driver is already written in mesa. what you need to write is handling of new hardware generation, shader compiler etc. all of it can be shared between vulkan and opengl drivers without extra zink overhead

[pal666]

For this reason I predict that a performance similar to the DXVK will never reach

dxvk is not that fast btw, it's fast compared to wine's dx on opengl, but native dx would be fastest

[oiaohm]

But for the average consumer without technical skills, and people with low incomes, perhaps with children, the PI 400 is a great start. For many people even $70 is a lot of money, and $170 would be out of the question. For example, imagine struggling parents with two children. For $140 they could provide them with systems well suited for Internet access, but for $340 they could not.

The lower grade keyboard means its really not as great of start as one would think. Repetitive Strain injury (RSI) is really simple to forget. Cherry MX or clones in the blue class are in fact designed to teach good typing pressure. They were in fact designed to reduce RSI risk. Yes 100 dollars more is a lot more but to upgrade the keyboard to a good mechanical keys is like the change between improper fitting shoes and proper fitting ones. Long term there is going to be a very big difference. Its one fo the things that people who start getting early RSI from typing find out that their choice of keyboard has been partly to blame. The cost in treating RSI is way more than prevention.

Next is life span of keyboard. I learnt this when my school bought a stack of typing tutor items with membrane keyboards those did not last 12 months but the old apple II and microbees with mechanical keyboards kept on going. There is a very big difference in the number of keystrokes each key can take between proper full stroke keys and the short keys as well. Yes short stroke mechanical have less than 1/4 the lifespan and a membrane has 1/20 the lifespan at best 1/1000000 at worst. Yes proper mechanical I am classing as baseline here they are just close to the highest durability keyboard you can get. .

Lot of people fail to notice how many laptops are scrap because their keyboards have failed. Or how often they are replacing their cheap 15 dollar keyboards. Yes a 100 dollar in decent mechanical keyboard over the long term is cheaper.

There is always a point in cost where you get the best quality. Going up by 100 dollars to improve the keyboard means the keyboard will not be the reason the device fails. Going up by 100 dollars gives you the ability to extend the keyboard out to a full standard layout with full standard keycaps this is another thing that allows extending the life of the device due to be standard keycaps they are replaceable same with being a cherry MX design key. Yes also means this device will be a functional hand me down for quite some time.

Also something I would have considered is making the USB keyboard controller on the board designed so it can be broken away. This is so main-board in device can be replaced in future while keeping the keyboard controller.

I lived in a house hold where 70 dollars was a lot. Yet I was still wearing 150 dollar shoes because the cheaper shoes back then did not last as long. So that $140 vs $340 may not be the numbers. If the 70 dollar device for lets say the 5 years of high-school is only doing 1 year before breaking that 70*5 that is 350 dollars for 1 child that makes the 140 dollars not look expensive at all. Its really easy with lower device durability to make up 100 dollars worth fo cost particularly when the item costs 70 dollars.

There is a reason why I would say go for a design where its usable as a good mechanical keyboard as well has having a PI. Because a good mechanical keyboard can give a person a good 20 years of service even 10 years takes 170 dollars back to 17 dollars a year for how long you can keep on using it for. Mechanical keyboard are fairly cheap long term up front cost is a little ouch.

Lets try to get decent keyboards into everyone hands or at least give them the option to choose it. PI 400 is a goodish idea having computer integrated into keyboard its just a pity its not a great keyboard. Yes not being a great keyboard is going to come its failure point,

Yes to market the version with the better keyboard having the 70 dollar one still could be useful. As in for 70 dollars you can by this one with a compact keyboard with less durability or you can buy the 170 dollar one here that is a full keyboard that can be used as either a computer on its own or as a keyboard for a computer that should serve you well into the future.

[ed31337]

I can't very easily compile Chromium under the 4GB limit of my current RPi4. I'm sure not going to buy the Pi-400, even though it's kind of cute. Really hoping for a 16GB Pi someday, then all my RAM issues would be gone. The 8GB is very tempting, but I just know that as soon as I buy it, they'll release the next better model.

[muncrief]

I do not class the Raspberry PI 400 is a great move. They have build for cost and the device lost some very important things. ...

Well, Raspberry could certainly build more expensive versions with more capability and features, and certainly those with the skills to put together their own systems might be better off doing just that.

But for the average consumer without technical skills, and people with low incomes, perhaps with children, the PI 400 is a great start. For many people even $70 is a lot of money, and $170 would be out of the question. For example, imagine struggling parents with two children. For $140 they could provide them with systems well suited for Internet access, but for $340 they could not.

But I'm with you in hoping that Raspberry continues this trend, and will start making a variety of ready to run systems, with more advanced hardware and features, for those without the skills to build them themselves. I think it would be a great new source of income for Raspberry, and provide an equally great benefit for consumers.

[oiaohm]

On a side note, the Raspberry PI 400 is a great move. I couldn't believe it when I saw it, and even though I don't need it I might buy one just for the history. I mean really, $70 for an all in one computer? That's awesome. I can imagine a lot of low income adults and kids finally getting an acceptable Internet only PC now, and that's a good thing for everyone.

I do not class the Raspberry PI 400 is a great move. They have build for cost and the device lost some very important things. Lets say you took the device to a $170 instead of $70 dollars this would give a little more money for case so it could be a little larger so be a full size keyboard. That slightly higher cost would give room for full mechanical keys with full travel. Yes there is enough cost saving there to do replaceable keys model. That the keyboard.

Next is why does the Raspberry PI 400 only have 4G of ram. Remember you can buy 8GB Raspberry Pi 4 for 75 dollars then you have to case it.

Aim at 200 dollars for complete unit like the Raspberry PI 400 you can have a true mechanical keyboard and 8GB of ram. Yes aiming at 200 dollars for the unit would still be cheaper than buying Raspberry PI 4 8G + Case + Mechanical keyboard invidually.

I do hope there is a successor to the Raspberry PI 400 built without corner cutting as in having proper key switches and truly maxed out ram for the soc.

I really do think it would be nice and warped to have a full sized mechanical keyboard that to a PC can act as a keyboard but also includes a embedded Raspberry PI so can function as a standalone computer. Could be a really warped macro keyboard. That would something like a Raspberry PI 400 could have been built with a little more budget.

[oiaohm]

In future Zink will be the only way to run old OpenGL software on newer hardware. It isn't going to be worth writing both a Vulkan and an OpenGL driver.

There is another factor here. Old opengl software can expect particular opengl hardware quirks. So you might have a GPU that can run opengl and vulkan yet for some old software be using a custom version of Zink to emulate some historic hardware quirk.

[muncrief]

On a side note, the Raspberry PI 400 is a great move. I couldn't believe it when I saw it, and even though I don't need it I might buy one just for the history. I mean really, $70 for an all in one computer? That's awesome. I can imagine a lot of low income adults and kids finally getting an acceptable Internet only PC now, and that's a good thing for everyone.

[R41N3R]

V3DV and Zink are the final reason for me to get again a Raspberry Pi. Hopefully more of the available Zink patches are merged to Mesa before the 20.3 feature freeze.