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A NVIDIA Engineer In His Spare Time Wrote A Vulkan Driver That Works On Older Raspberry Pi

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  • #51
    Originally posted by coder View Post
    No, I don't think any part of Mantle survived, intact. I think Vulkan is built on the conceptual foundations of Mantle, as is DX12.

    The biggest contribution Mantle made towards Vulkan was probably the inspiration and a proof-of-concept. AMD built Mantle as a prototype, simply to show what was possible with a lower-level API that had a more flexible threading model than either DX11 or OpenGL.

    By no coincidence, it turns out that a low-overhead graphics API designed to work well on multi-core processors and modern GPUs also works quite well on modern mobile SoCs. And to the extent that Mantle wasn't up to that task, it's not hard to see Khronos' motivation to ensure that Vulkan is.

    You're fighting a losing battle, bud. This board doesn't need more trolling. If you're called out for making an unsupported claim, your best bet is just to drop the matter and move on. Please don't waste our time by trying to double-down on weak counter-arguments.
    From Wikipedia:

    Vulkan is derived from and built upon components of AMD's Mantle API, which was donated by AMD to Khronos with the intent of giving Khronos a foundation on which to begin developing a low-level API that they could standardize across the industry.

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    • #52
      Originally posted by krOoze View Post
      Sure, be condescending because you do not understand a question.
      Sure, be condescending because you're too lazy to ask a question properly.

      Attitude might shield your ego from a poorly-phrased question, but it's of no use when a compiler misinterprets your badly-written code. So, you'd do well to get over yourself and learn to accept that GIGO happens.

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      • #53
        Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post
        From Wikipedia:
        Vulkan is derived from and built upon components of AMD's Mantle API, which was donated by AMD to Khronos with the intent of giving Khronos a foundation on which to begin developing a low-level API that they could standardize across the industry.
        As it stands, you're claiming that Vulkan cannot be efficiently implemented on mobile devices, because it's derived in a to-be-established way from a different API, developed by a company who did not make mobile GPUs at the time.

        So, the burden of proof is on you to show:
        1. Which parts of Mantle survived into Vulkan, intact.
        2. Why those parts prevent Vulkan from being efficiently implementable on a mobile device.

        For bonus points, please explain why the last version of OpenGL ES was released in August 2015 and Vulkan 1.0 was released in February 2016. Did mobile GPUs and software stop evolving, for the last 5 years, or could it be that the industry has actually left OpenGL ES behind, like I said?

        Please do this not just for us, but for the 134 contributors to the Vulkan 1.0 specification, from its Working Group. Especially those from mobile platform, silicon, and app developers, like: Arm, Broadcom, Freescale, Google, Imagination, Mediatek, Mobica, Qualcomm, Samsung, and VeriSilicon (5 of which are mobile GPU designers). I'm sure these fine folks would really appreciate being informed that the specification failed at one of its key goals; one so key to their business that their respective employers ponied up the Khronos member dues and sponsored their involvement in the drafting of the specification.

        https://www.khronos.org/registry/vul...tors_to_vulkan

        It's such a shame to hear that, in accepting any contributions from AMD, the mobile-centric contributors' entire mission was unwittingly doomed. One struggles to grasp how they could be so incompetent as not to see this basic fact. You need to set them straight. More than 4 years since Vulkan's publication is far too long to live such a lie!
        Last edited by coder; 06-25-2020, 06:18 AM.

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        • #54
          Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post

          Vulkan isn't built for mobile GPU's in mind. That's why there's OpenGL ES.
          Lies. Android 10 even requires GPU to support Vulkan 1.1 as minimum. So basicly Vulkan on mobile devices isn't even behind comparing to desktops. Also Android offers now Angle that is implementation of OpenGL ES on top of Vulkan, and driver creators don't have to even support opengl ES, they just need to support Vulkan and Angle does the job. Literally every sign on sky shows Google wants to move to Vulkan on android as primary.

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          • #55
            Originally posted by piotrj3 View Post

            Lies. Android 10 even requires GPU to support Vulkan 1.1 as minimum. So basicly Vulkan on mobile devices isn't even behind comparing to desktops. Also Android offers now Angle that is implementation of OpenGL ES on top of Vulkan, and driver creators don't have to even support opengl ES, they just need to support Vulkan and Angle does the job. Literally every sign on sky shows Google wants to move to Vulkan on android as primary.
            https://source.android.com/compatibi...oid-10-cdd.pdf

            Show me where.

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            • #56
              Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post
              Sorry, I'm new here, I'm not on the same level as the other guys technically but man, I searched VULKAN on the PDF you provided and...

              7.1.4.2 Vulkan
              Android includes support for Vulkan , a low-overhead, cross-platform API for high-performance 3D
              graphics.
              If device implementations support OpenGL ES 3.1, they:
              [SR] Are STRONGLY RECOMMENDED to include support for Vulkan 1.1.
              If device implementations include a screen or video output, they:
              SHOULD include support for Vulkan 1.1.

              Comment


              • #57
                Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post

                Vulkan isn't built for mobile GPU's in mind. That's why there's OpenGL ES.
                Vulkan took a ton of time to actually release from when Mantle was first proposed, because it was undergoing a lot of fundamental changes.

                The whole SPIR-V side was completely new, but they also wanted to include first-class mobile support. They did that by making sure it worked properly with tiling GPUs in a way that GLES fundamentally never could, because GL was designed for desktop GPUs which didn't have tiling and resulted in the tiling GPUs never able to have optimized drivers for their hardware.

                So there was a ton of excitement from the ARM vendors about finally dumping GLES when Vulkan came out.
                Last edited by smitty3268; 06-28-2020, 02:40 AM.

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by matcarfer View Post
                  Sorry, I'm new here, I'm not on the same level as the other guys technically but man, I searched VULKAN on the PDF you provided and...

                  7.1.4.2 Vulkan
                  Android includes support for Vulkan , a low-overhead, cross-platform API for high-performance 3D
                  graphics.
                  If device implementations support OpenGL ES 3.1, they:
                  [SR] Are STRONGLY RECOMMENDED to include support for Vulkan 1.1.
                  If device implementations include a screen or video output, they:
                  SHOULD include support for Vulkan 1.1.
                  NONE of that says that a GPU requires, or requires exclusively, Vulkan 1.1. Vulkan v.anything isn't a requirement at all.

                  Let me rephrase what was written:

                  Lies -> Android 10 even requires GPU to support Vulkan 1.1 as minimum

                  Comment


                  • #59
                    Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post

                    NONE of that says that a GPU requires, or requires exclusively, Vulkan 1.1. Vulkan v.anything isn't a requirement at all.

                    Let me rephrase what was written:
                    Should, requires, it's the same man. At this point I don't know if you are trolling or not. I'm out.

                    Comment


                    • #60
                      Originally posted by matcarfer View Post
                      Should, requires, it's the same man.
                      Sorry, but it's actually not. These documents are carefully written, and such terms are used quite deliberately. The second sentence of the document makes this very clear.
                      1. Introduction

                      This document enumerates the requirements that must be met in order for devices to be compatible with Android 10.

                      The use of “MUST”, “MUST NOT”, “REQUIRED”, “SHALL”, “SHALL NOT”, “SHOULD”, “SHOULD NOT”,“RECOMMENDED”, “MAY”, and “OPTIONAL” is per the IETF standard defined in RFC2119.

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