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Vulkan 1.1.108 Released With Two New Extensions

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  • phoronix
    started a topic Vulkan 1.1.108 Released With Two New Extensions

    Vulkan 1.1.108 Released With Two New Extensions

    Phoronix: Vulkan 1.1.108 Released With Two New Extensions

    It's been almost a month since the last Vulkan spec update with Vulkan 1.1.107, which is a long time considering they go through some periods of almost weekly updates, but out today is v1.1.108 and it introduces two new extensions...

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...1.108-Released

  • Weasel
    replied
    Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
    That's kind of like saying that no one can learn C++ because there are too many libraries out there for people to memorize and wouldn't it be better if there was just a single way to do everything that was built into the core language?
    Nah, that's a bad analogy. Libraries don't enable you to do stuff you can't do alone (usually, unless they are low level abstract interfaces). Unlike Vulkan where you can't do that stuff without it (at the same speed) no matter how optimized you write your code. With libraries you can just do whatever they are doing yourself or copy-paste it from somewhere.

    Leave a comment:


  • smitty3268
    replied
    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
    Pretty much yeah. The problem is that it'll end up in a situation where just making use of all these extensions will require too much memorization of millions of them.

    I mean sure, you don't have to use certain extensions, but if you don't know about them, how can you know that your current way of doing something in Vulkan is optimal or the best way to achieve it? So technically you'd have to know about (most) extensions just to know which to use and which not to in a particular situation and application. The burden will just be too great cause it seems it's never going to slow down.

    Remember that the Direct3D propaganda against OpenGL was also mostly about development and documentation, i.e. people were brainwashed to think that OpenGL was just too hard to get into compared to Direct3D. Having so many extensions doesn't really help Vulkan here with this, in my opinion.
    That's kind of like saying that no one can learn C++ because there are too many libraries out there for people to memorize and wouldn't it be better if there was just a single way to do everything that was built into the core language?

    Leave a comment:


  • jacob
    replied
    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
    Pretty much yeah. The problem is that it'll end up in a situation where just making use of all these extensions will require too much memorization of millions of them.

    I mean sure, you don't have to use certain extensions, but if you don't know about them, how can you know that your current way of doing something in Vulkan is optimal or the best way to achieve it? So technically you'd have to know about (most) extensions just to know which to use and which not to in a particular situation and application. The burden will just be too great cause it seems it's never going to slow down.

    Remember that the Direct3D propaganda against OpenGL was also mostly about development and documentation, i.e. people were brainwashed to think that OpenGL was just too hard to get into compared to Direct3D. Having so many extensions doesn't really help Vulkan here with this, in my opinion.
    You have lots of new extensions appearing all the time simply because the hardware and the requirements are always evolving. The alternative would be an API frozen in time that would quickly be discarded by application developers for being obsolete and inadequate.

    Leave a comment:


  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
    I mean sure, you don't have to use certain extensions, but if you don't know about them, how can you know that your current way of doing something in Vulkan is optimal or the best way to achieve it?
    What about searching in the extension archive https://www.khronos.org/registry/vulkan/ for the extensions related to your task?

    I mean, how is people supposed to learn and keep up-to-date about stuff? You look it up.

    Having so many extensions doesn't really help Vulkan here with this, in my opinion.
    It's not designed to make development easier, it's designed to provide the best possible access to hardware features, for developers and companies that want peak performance in their specific application.

    People that need easy development can go and use a framework that abstracts it away
    https://github.com/GPUOpen-LibrariesAndSDKs/V-EZ
    https://www.bsframework.io/
    https://github.com/GPUOpen-LibrariesAndSDKs/Anvil
    or a third party game engine (which also abstracts much more than just graphics rendering).
    Last edited by starshipeleven; 05-14-2019, 10:06 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Weasel
    replied
    Originally posted by jacob View Post
    I think there is also a misunderstanding about the meaning of extensions. To many people the word "extensions" suggests that they are somehow optional. They are not: in Vulkan, "extensions" are in fact domain-specific and system-specific API subsets whose use is MANDATORY and necessary to accomplish certain actions, such as initialising the GPU, obtaining a graphics context to do any drawing at all etc.

    An application must declare which extensions it needs, which is basically never an empty set, and then can only use only those parts of the APIs that are provided by those extensions.
    Pretty much yeah. The problem is that it'll end up in a situation where just making use of all these extensions will require too much memorization of millions of them.

    I mean sure, you don't have to use certain extensions, but if you don't know about them, how can you know that your current way of doing something in Vulkan is optimal or the best way to achieve it? So technically you'd have to know about (most) extensions just to know which to use and which not to in a particular situation and application. The burden will just be too great cause it seems it's never going to slow down.

    Remember that the Direct3D propaganda against OpenGL was also mostly about development and documentation, i.e. people were brainwashed to think that OpenGL was just too hard to get into compared to Direct3D. Having so many extensions doesn't really help Vulkan here with this, in my opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • jacob
    replied
    Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post

    Not really, no. Weren't there tons of extensions from day 1 which weren't required by the core spec?

    Anyway, the key with Vulkan is that they are all opt-in rather than opt-out, so each app should be getting small subset and have better pre-determined behavior.
    I think there is also a misunderstanding about the meaning of extensions. To many people the word "extensions" suggests that they are somehow optional. They are not: in Vulkan, "extensions" are in fact domain-specific and system-specific API subsets whose use is MANDATORY and necessary to accomplish certain actions, such as initialising the GPU, obtaining a graphics context to do any drawing at all etc.

    An application must declare which extensions it needs, which is basically never an empty set, and then can only use only those parts of the APIs that are provided by those extensions.

    Leave a comment:


  • smitty3268
    replied
    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
    Remember when Vulkan used to be a lean and mean API without millions of extensions?
    Not really, no. Weren't there tons of extensions from day 1 which weren't required by the core spec?

    Anyway, the key with Vulkan is that they are all opt-in rather than opt-out, so each app should be getting small subset and have better pre-determined behavior.

    Leave a comment:


  • jacob
    replied
    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
    Remember when Vulkan used to be a lean and mean API without millions of extensions?
    It was never "lean and mean" and it was never without millions of extensions. Vulkan was all about extensions from day 0. In fact it's impossible by design to write any Vulkan-based software at all without relying on extensions.

    Leave a comment:


  • tildearrow
    replied
    Typo:

    Originally posted by phoronix View Post
    The NVIDIA-led extension allows definding modes

    Leave a comment:

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