Wine Lands Support For Vulkan On macOS Via MoltenVK

[theriddick]

I don't think so, but could be wrong.
Their all pretty much based off AMD's special API tech which I can't remember the name of.

They gave the code away for everyone to use for free, pretty much. If it was NVIDIA's baby you can bet your sweet arse it be an proprietary exclusive!

[GreenByte]

I don't know how they are doing the checks (if they are doing them at all, as running Warframe in Wine is also a breach of this since Wine already replaces DX libraries to remap them on OpenGL), nor if they can realistically do serious checking, as DX libs might be updated by windows and this would break any checksum-based check.

Windows has built in ways of checking the authenticity of a binary, also known as certificates. There are 2 ways out of this situation: 1) wine starts emulating windows certificates or 2) dxvk releases signed binaries and get into some agreement with the companies to make that not bannable. The second solution is not convenient at all while the first one would get to a pretty dangerous situation of games possibly doing more aggressive checks knowing this and making the situations even worse.

[bemerk]

It is easy to detect wine, as it exposes certain wine specific paths, files and apis. You do not even have to rely on whitelists and blacklists for directx.

[R41N3R]

I think Vulkan should be the way to go for wine. Mostly I stopped using wine because of too many bugs and issues with the DirectX to OpenGL translation layers. But since DXVK, DXUP and VK9 I'm very interested. It is impressive how well DXVK works and how fast it has been developed into this usable state. The wine development on the other side was often very slow from my perspective. Integrating (not necessarily merging, just a good out of the box experience) the new Vulkan projects would benefit wine a lot. And now with MoltenVK even MacOS is covered as a platform. On Linux and Android Vulkan is available out of the box, looks like a bright future.

[timofonic]

There are no cases of such "autobans" reported afaik. It's just an official statement from techsupport.

Using Wine isn't different from using DXVK, as both replace the windows DX libs with their own, and so far I've not seen people reporting bans because of that.

The easiest way is checksumming and checking the hash with a "known good" list. But they don't seem to detect even Wine's DX-to-OpenGL layer, so why would they detect DXVK?

I'm sorry, my apologies. I got wrong facts and assumed they were right. I'm not able to test software due so hardware issues these days.

Anyway, it would be quite interesting to make Wine totally resilient to these kind of checks, as Virtual Machines can be hidden to not be detected too (a good example are the nasty Nvidia drivers when using a PCI passthrough, despite there certain workarounds too).

Your opinion is wrong, allowing players of a multiplayer game to alter 3D rendering libraries is a pretty big issue for cheating.

[/QUOTE]

I consider your opinion is wrong too: Cheating in multiplayer games is relatively easy if you are somewhat smart and stubborn.

There are all kind of players, many of these players can be smart/stubborn programmers that find cheating to be fun for different reasons:
- As when you have a sentimental partner.
- As when you want to feel "the king" and "powerful".
- Just for fun: Be able to do it as a kind of challenge and then get bored after playing a bit.
- A combination of two or more of the above.

Cheats existed since the first games (usual wikipedia reference here), one of the most popular ones is Xyzzy in "Colossal Cave Adventure" Interactive Fiction game.

Of course cheating can be some kind of issue in multiplayer games, that's a fact. But there are TONS of ways for cheating outside of software hacking:
- Getting better hardware that gives you advantages over others: Better pointing and typing devices, better monitor (it can be useful specially in FPS games), etc.
- Doping: Different kind of stimulants, for example.
- Get an extremely low latency Internet connection.
- Get the IP addresses of opponents and do DoS attacks: It may be possible, depending if the clients connect between themselves or only over a server.

On the technical (and not so technical) side, there are lots of ways. There are some interesting software for doing it, here are just a few Open Source software for it:
- Cheat Engine: This tool is Open Source. It uses a custom format called "Cheat Tables". Cheat Tables are available at a community named Fearless Revolution.
- scanmem & GameConqueror: For Linux.
- Squalr: For Windows.
- KernelBhop: For Windows.
- PINCE: For Linux.
- Bit Slicer: For Mac.
- TONS MORE TOOLS, both Open/Free Source and proprietary.

There are some resources list like this too.

I know of countermeasures like PunkBuster (why punks?), Valve Anti-Cheat and others. There are many ways to crack them too.


What's the solution? The same as illegitimate copies of proprietary software (wrongly know as piracy), drugs, crime and others. Be preventive and instead criminalize, provide an environment that doesn't promote negative actions:
- Legalize drugs in a smart way (hard ones are very dangerous, like "heroine" and "cocaine") and provide excellent professionals and help therapy centers for addicts, lots of scientific information, etc..
- To have an excellent education+social+health system (look at Finland and others, Linus Torvalds born there).
- Make cheating boring in game design.
- Avoid extremely obsessive and toxic obsession for competition and promote collaboration. eSports is just a way to sell expensive shit to morons with lots of brands and "influencers" all over social networks.


Cat and Mouse game always ends in the same way, it's better to fed the cat so he loses interest in the mouse

[starshipeleven]

Never heard of such. How would you do that?

It's a thing, "reveal all enemies" programs, "aimbots", whatever. https://blog.forrestthewoods.com/ext...i=8acec07c1091

[starshipeleven]

It is easy to detect wine, as it exposes certain wine specific paths, files and apis. You do not even have to rely on whitelists and blacklists for directx.

The problem here isn't "detecting wine" or "detecting DXVK", the issue is making sure they weren't tampered with to redirect stuff to a third party cheat engine. See my post above this for some practical examples of what can be done.

[Jabberwocky]

Never heard of such. How would you do that?

Banning Wine is simply unfriendly. But chinese copy everything, so maybe they're doing something unlawful?

It's one of the first ways that I saw people cheating, besides looking on your opponent's screens at a LAN. It's easier than writing aimbot or noclip hacks as you don't need to modify the game files and it's not so game/game-engine specific etc...

Today's standard anti-cheat software uses a broken model. They try to take over the user's computer which both a security/privacy risk and like taking vitamins for a cold, it does not solve the problem (loud volume). Since people improve their hacking skills overtime a potential cure would be something like using A.I. to analyze the player's actions server side. AFAIK Valve is looking into this method, it would be great after 17 years of hacking in counter-strike. If we are lucky they could get it working before 20 year anniversary.

I do gaming at my multiple machines at home. My steam library is shared over the network. If I mount a drive on windows via samba share then battle eye (popular anti-cheat) complains. If I mount a drive via Red Hat's virtio driver (still have it going over the network) then battle eye is happy. Maybe some day battle eye and others will try to ban qemu which will require me to spend more time on my setup or money on hardware to play legitimately. They already prevent you from playing if VMware is active in windows. The other stupid thing they like to do is when a player is found guilty then they blacklist the hardware used by the "hacker". I know the chances of becoming a victim if a hacker used your hardware IDs are very small, but I know people that have lost time and money due to it. The only people that you will catch by blacklisting hardware are script kiddies that don't know how to edit/configure scripts. I've complained about open source counter strike go cheats, it's on github. I can understand that Valve ignores it and I actually commend them (now that I know better) for not investing in locking down client systems.

Rant: I have given up on playing public FPS matches, it's unfortunate that the fun is spoiled by games that do not allow private matches between friends. I also get really pissed off at modern game developers for buying/supporting this type of technology, they should know better! Getting recruited by clans boasting about good cheats if you join, reporting them and just seeing years later that nothing has happened to them, ugh I can see why pay to win games are gaining popularity.

[Weasel]

They aren't doing it out of spite though. Warfarm is a competitive multiplayer game and allowing players to alter the 3D libraries would allow any kind of graphics-related hack without the game being able to notice.

Why only graphics related? It lives in the same address space as the game's process, so it can do any kind of hack not just "graphics related". That said, unless they detect any kind of DLL injection, it's pointless to single out the "graphics" DLLs.

It is easy to detect wine, as it exposes certain wine specific paths, files and apis. You do not even have to rely on whitelists and blacklists for directx.

You can hide some of that in wine-staging, but unix style paths will still work tho (i.e. \\?\unix\...).


Oh I'm completely against anti-cheat or copy protections in general, just explaining some reasons. All of them can be bypassed, obviously, and it even makes people think there's no cheaters (because there's less of them) which boosts the ego of the cheater even more.

[starshipeleven]

Why only graphics related?

Graphics-related is easier as DX interface is documented, and in a multiplayer game that's the only thing you care about. RNG Rewards, player accounts and enemy RNG happen server-side so you can't touch them from a compromised client.