Originally posted by Gusar
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Apple Rejects iOS App For Using MoltenVK Vulkan, Alleged Non-Public API
Collapse
X
-
- Likes 5
-
Originally posted by shmerl View PostApple deserves being blasted for not supporting Vulkan to begin with.
Originally posted by shmerl View PostI get the point of some API not having stability guarantees, but banning applications for using such APIs is not an appropriate solution, it's Apple solution. And they deserve being criticized for doing that, instead of providing what's needed to support Vulkan better.
Originally posted by Weasel View PostUndocumented is not the same thing as private. You described undocumented APIs. A private method in C++ is a completely different thing.
Originally posted by Weasel View PostYou're using weird words and then wonder why nobody understands you.Last edited by Gusar; 08 July 2018, 02:41 PM.
- Likes 4
Comment
-
Originally posted by natbro View PostI know app rejections and the Apple ecosystem rules can be frustrating and cause a lot of consternation, but in this case I *think* this is likely a legitimate rejection for using the kIOSurfaceIsGlobal=true flag when creating an IOSurface - Apple documents this as private and not allowed by sandboxed apps on iOS, and there are legitimate security & sandbox reasons to not support IOSurfaces that can be guessed and mapped to a foreign process using IOSurfaceLookup(). It's likely Apple's static analyzer found this during submission. We (Valve) worked to add this type of IOSurface-backed MTLTexture for Vulkan VR support for macOS and I suspect it slipped into the iOS build inadvertently - we don't need that support on iOS (yet? If somebody knows the developer and can point them my way ([email protected]) I'd be happy to figure out if this was the only issue, and I'll create a PR for MoltenVK to drop the global flag out of the iOS build.
Apple graphics folks I work with are fine with MoltenVK, and many Apple and AMD folks have provided concrete technical feedback to improve the performance of MoltenVK, and we have uncovered bugs in HLSL->GLSL->SPIR-V->MSL together which should help make the entire graphics ecosystem stronger.
- Likes 1
Comment
-
Originally posted by Gusar View PostI get that sometimes you may not have a choice because the public API is lacking, or the private API is simply so much more convenient to use, but it's private for a reason and Apple clamping down on the use of private APIs is not something they deserve being blasted forLast edited by shmerl; 08 July 2018, 02:49 PM.
- Likes 2
Comment
-
Originally posted by shmerl View PostSince it's not a theoretical case, but quite practical case of Apple banning lock-in removal option, the regular excuse of "private APIs are bad" won't fly.
Originally posted by shmerl View PostApple could easily provide Vulkan to begin with or work with MoltenVK developers to make more of their APIs public that needed for Vulkan implementation.
Originally posted by shmerl View PostThey did neither of that, so I see it as an anti-competitive move, simply masked under usual "private APIs are bad".Last edited by Gusar; 08 July 2018, 02:51 PM.
- Likes 4
Comment
-
Originally posted by Gusar View PostYou're still seeing this as a Vulkan/MoltenVK issue. It's not. This isn't a specific attack on MoltenVK by Apple.
- Likes 1
Comment
-
Originally posted by Weasel View PostUndocumented is not the same thing as private. You described undocumented APIs. A private method in C++ is a completely different thing.
You're using weird words and then wonder why nobody understands you.
- Likes 2
Comment
-
Originally posted by shmerl View PostIt de-facto is, since it's MoltenVK that's using those APIs, and application is just using MoltenVK.
Originally posted by shmerl View PostIt is a direct attack on MoltenVK in practice, no matter what their real intent is.
Originally posted by shmerl View PostIf Apple will fix this situation - I'll agree with you that it wasn't deliberate. If Apple will say - MoltenVK developers should figure it out using current crippled public API - I'd stay with my opinion that it's a deliberate attack.
- Likes 6
Comment
-
Originally posted by Gusar View PostAnd you don't know if the public API is crippledLast edited by shmerl; 08 July 2018, 03:27 PM.
- Likes 3
Comment
Comment