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Apple Rejects iOS App For Using MoltenVK Vulkan, Alleged Non-Public API

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  • #61
    Originally posted by the_scx View Post
    Exactly, just like in Windows system. No game developer cares about DirectX here, because we have OpenGL, which is a multi-platform, open source standard. Oh, wait. It does not work as you expected.
    I don't understand a single thing you're talking about here, care to elaborate? I was asking a rhetorical question, it was sarcasm. They don't like to use open stuff and want to promote their own crap to enforce lock-in later.

    It's not like Microsoft trashed OpenGL in the past and tried to kill it by saying how it's subpar (reminds me of ARM's "facts" against RISC-V), nah... oh wait, it did happen. If they didn't care why would they do it?

    Originally posted by the_scx View Post
    Moreover, you stayed in the 90s (maybe even earlier), when everyone created their own game engine. This situation no longer exists. Nowadays, developers in most cases choose a third-party game engine, based on their needs:
    1. For very specific games you can use dedicated engines, for example: Twine + SugarCube (story format) for text-based novels (interactive, nonlinear stories), RenPy for Visual Novels, RPG Maker for 2D RPGs, PaC-DK (The Point & Click Development Kit) for point-and-click adventure games, etc.
    2. For simple 2D games you can use a relatively simple 2D engine, for example Cocos2D or Construct 2 + Tiled (level editor).
    3. For medium-range games, you can use Unity 3D + Fabric/FMOD/Wwise (sound engine) + PlayMaker (visual scripting).
    4. For more demanding titles you can choose Unreal Engine 4 or maybe even CryEngine (less popular, with worse documentation, generally harder to use).
    Most mobile game developers usually go by route 2 or 3. Of course, developing your own engine for really demanding titles still makes sense (e.g. Rockstar Advanced Game Engine, Frostbite or AnvilNext), but it's a niche, especially on mobile market.
    The majority of Unreal Engine games have no OpenGL or Vulkan renderer.

    There's more Direct3D 12 games out there than Vulkan games (Windows or not). How is this possible, since devs use those engines?!???

    There's **FAR** more Direct3D-based games than OpenGL (or Vulkan).

    I'm guessing you live in dreamland, so no point arguing further.

    (also Unity is crappy and should be left out but that's my opinion I didn't bring it up)

    Originally posted by the_scx View Post
    DirectX is constantly developed and gets regular updates. These are not just bug fixes, but actually feature updates (e.g. Direct3D 11.4 Version 1709). Moreover, the aforementioned higher-level components (DirectXTK, DirectXMath, DirectXMesh, DirectXTex, UVAtlas, FX11, etc.) are developed independently.
    Just tell me one thing. Why do you speak about topics where you have no knowledge?
    We're in a topic about Metal and Vulkan, pure 3D graphics APIs and computing, and yet you think I wasn't clearly talking about Direct3D? Wow, that's some next level of straw grasping you have there.
    Last edited by Weasel; 07-10-2018, 08:32 AM.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by the_scx View Post
      DirectX was successful on the Windows platform not because MS has forbidden the use of other APIs (what never happened), but because it better met the needs of game developers.
      Actually, that's because Windows other than Windows RT is not locked to the microsoft store. Thus, MS never had the ABILITY to prohibit a game developer from using another API or for that matter writing a direct bootable game (can you say GRUB invaders?) that bypasses the entire OS. Also, very few Windows computers other than Surface tablets are purchased from Microsoft, and even the thought that MS would consider locking Windows 8 to the store caused Valve to port some of their games to Linux and develop experimental Steam Machines. I am all but certain that was an insurance policy, a way to bypass any such lock-in.

      Not only is Windows/Intel not traditionally a walled garden, it's not been the whole garden at all. Some of our "weeds" sold with Windows have never booted it and only run Linux. For all the trouble of "rooting" a Chromebook when you've never had one before and didn't know not to try and set a root password to reset the boot loader for Linux, that's nothing compared to trying to get an iPhone to boot Debian.

      Android (iOS's main competitor) is a mixed bag, with some machines locked, some unlocked, but all allow sideloading without having to root the machine first, and all allow disabling Google Play services and the Google Store. Turn all the anti-privacy shit off, remove or disable the Twitter, Youtube, Google, Facebook and similar apps, and you get a machine whose user-facing code is much more controllable than Apple. Still a weak ecosystem of true FOSS/GPL apps compared to the Linux desktop, posssibly due to needing a totally different build environment. Would be damned nice if it was possible to cross-compile Pluma for Android, given how few decent text editors are in F-droid.

      Apple can ban a game from their store, but you can ban their store (and their overpriced phone) from your pocket.

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