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Canonical Developers To The Community: Help Us Figure Out The Direction Of Mir

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  • danmcgrew
    replied
    @ GizmoChicken--

    "...Here's another old saying that comes to mind:
    “Shut up and be thankful, you ingrate.”

    I assume, from your lack of comment to the contrary, that you DO consider my comment appropriate. Thank you for your assent. You are in the very vast majority..

    Leave a comment:


  • GizmoChicken
    replied
    Originally posted by danmcgrew View Post
    Considering EVERYTHING Shuttleworth has done to destroy Ubuntu, starting in 2010, there's an old saying that comes to mind (you'll have to decide if it's appropriate):
    "If he were on fire, I wouldn't piss on him to try and put it out."
    Mark Shuttleworth has donated tens (if not hundreds) of millions to the Ubuntu project and gives away Ubuntu for free.

    Here's another old saying that comes to mind:

    “Shut up and be thankful, you ingrate.”

    Leave a comment:


  • danmcgrew
    replied
    Considering EVERYTHING Shuttleworth has done to destroy Ubuntu, starting in 2010, there's an old saying that comes to mind (you'll have to decide if it's appropriate):
    "If he were on fire, I wouldn't piss on him to try and put it out."

    Leave a comment:


  • GizmoChicken
    replied
    Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post

    Mate could just as well use libmutter for their window manager.

    Some are under the impression that a DE such as MATE could use Mutter as a drop-in Wayland compositor. But according to Ikey Doherty (lead developer of Solus and Budgie) in this thread:

    At the most fundamental level Mutter does not expose support for panel positioning or strut reservation on Wayland, nor arbitrary window placement for blessed windows, which is everything that mate-panel would actually *need* to be useful.
    Of course, KWin may be more flexible than Mutter.

    And actually, Budgie 11 (the future release of Budgie that will have Wayland support) is currently being developed with KWin. But whether Budgie 11 ultimately relies on KWin (or something else) for Wayland support remains to be seen. And actually, with regard to the future of KWin on Budgie 11, Ikey recently stated:


    Not so much as settled, just using what’s currently available (KWin). Not exactly in love with it or tied to it so I’m just watching [Mir development] from the sidelines.

    Also, and not to knock KWin, but KWin was originally written for X11 and has been modified to allow it to act as a Wayland-compliant compositor. In comparison, although Mir wasn't initially written to comply with the Wayland protocol, Mir was written from the ground up to achieve goals that are consistent with the goals of the Wayland protocol. So adapting the Mir display server to be Wayland compliant will likely be more straightforward than what's been required, thus far, to adapt KWin and Mutter to be Wayland-compliant compositors.

    Hopefully, when finished, Mir will offer a *generalized* solution that will be easier for DE devs to apply.

    Leave a comment:


  • timofonic
    replied
    Originally posted by DanL View Post

    Yeah, that.



    Yes, yes, we know - you want everything to run natively on Wayland and you want it done yesterday. Maybe if you repeat it 10,000 more times, it will happen. But that's up to the devs of those projects and is unrelated to the topic.



    If they're willing to hire devs to work on Mir, there's no reason they couldn't do both.
    Canonical should be renamed Cannibal: They cannibalize most of their resources from Debian and add their "magic" (aka crap) to them.

    If they want to get helped, they must make us trust on them:
    - They got in bed with Microsoft's WSL.
    - They must remove all their CLA crap and become real part of the Free Software community: No Apache shit, make an AGPLv3 CUPS fork and whatever other insane but awesome ideas to make them real. BE CREATIVE, not just copycats.
    - They must abandon that zombie named Launchpad and adopt both GitLab and GitHub (mirroring both issues and pull requests/merges would be essential). And please, kill Bazaar NG with fire too. Git is here to stay, it's getting improved constantly and will improve ever, so put your resources in Git and not waste resources on a crap platform like Launchpad.
    - Mir? They changed their plans more than a corrupt politician. What do they want to do with that crap? Adopt upstream and get your developers to contribute useful code, if there's still proper coders at Canonical (lots of them left, I know why...) and not just code monkeys.
    - Make FWTS part of Linux Foundation and improve initiatives like Linux-Hardware.org's hw-probe to be part of a global project: If Canonical wants Linux to really grow in the desktop arena, be a lot more serious in your actions.
    - No more experimental GUI crap: Meanwhile, you could try to give sanity to GNOME project and make them collaborate to KDE (it's a very difficult challenge, but I think it's fair to make the Canonical sins to be forgiven).
    - Put your efforts in important parts of the Linux desktop: Mitigate ACPI hell, research and work on improving laptop compatibility (MSI is one of them, I suffer it everyday), work on improving energy efficiency to the mythical macOS one, etc.

    INVEST, RESEARCH, BE FAIR, NO MORE CLAs, NO MORE MICROSOFT AFFAIRS, NO MORE MONO CRAP; BECOME PART OF THE COMMUNITY FINALLY.

    Originally posted by Ikaris View Post
    Am I the only one thinking that Canonical may be trapped in a sunk-cost fallacy regarding Mir?
    I agree...
    Also: CLAs SUCKS
    Last edited by timofonic; 24 November 2017, 07:03 PM. Reason: Extra reply. 2x1 offer! And: CLAs SUCKS

    Leave a comment:


  • Vistaus
    replied
    Originally posted by jpg44 View Post
    3) The attitude that "people who need windows app or hardware should use windows" is why Linux remains at 3% desktop user share. Many of us have wanted to get off Windows but cannot because we are tied to proprietary apps and some hardware that Linux does not support.
    Yeah, luckily I one run one Windows app and it has been running fine for years now under Wine, because the developer actually makes sure every new release is compatible with Wine before releasing the new version But not everyone is as lucky. Although more and more apps are becoming cloud-based now, meaning that any HTML5 browser can run them. Including Linux browsers (and BSD browsers, Haiku browsers, AmigaOS4 browsers, etc., etc. - basically every niche OS with an HTML5 browser lol).

    Leave a comment:


  • Vistaus
    replied
    Originally posted by Geopirate View Post
    We have the Gnome, KDE and Enlightenment Wayland implementations
    Don't forget about Sway
    Last edited by Vistaus; 24 November 2017, 11:58 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vistaus
    replied
    Originally posted by DanL View Post



    ndiswrapper is for Win XP-based drivers, which are becoming rare, and Win XP-64 are even rarer. ndiswrapper is almost irrelevant today.
    Rare? I've walked into the Media Markt (which is a big electronics store chain over here!) a few months ago and a lot of hardware parts/external hardware still said "Win XP/Vista/7/8/10 drivers" on the box. So they're not all that rare yet.
    Last edited by Vistaus; 24 November 2017, 11:54 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • theghost
    replied
    Originally posted by Mystro256 View Post
    I believe eON is a well known wine based library for games
    It's not true. EON is NOT a wine based library, it works differently.
    See: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articl.../page=1#r66933

    Leave a comment:


  • theghost
    replied
    Originally posted by jpg44 View Post
    Also, on a driver compatability layer, it wouldnt be messy. I would advocate such things be done outside the kernel or in a module, then the mess would only be loaded by people who need it
    That is why proprietary drivers like the Nvidia driver and Ndiswrapper were so successful.
    We don't need this crappy windows driver in Linux, which are often buggy, non-fixable and break with every kernel release.

    Driver developers today use firmware for keeping their company secrets, the rest can be build as proper kernel driver.

    Leave a comment:

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