LLVMpipe vs. OpenSWR Software Rendering On A 40 Core / 80 Thread Tyan Server

[coder]

Ah man, Descent 2, that brings back memories.

Just in case anybody didn't know, there seem to be two modern remakes:

https://descendentstudios.com

https://playoverload.com

I haven't played either, but I got a good nostalgia hit from that circular room in the gameplay video that autoplays on the playoverload.com homepage.

[grok]

There is also an executable for Descent 1 for 3dfx boards. It runs at 800x600 on Voodoo1.

Well, I wanted to talk about LLVMpipe. How easy would be a Windows version, and has it been considered?
Nothing fancy, I would want an opengl32.dll to drop in a game folder. Alright, that's a tall order. I'd even want it to work in Windows XP.
Goal is to run that in a VM and get old games working so I wouldn't care if it's buggy, underfeatured, unsupported. I would understand if I have to run Windows 7 32bit (that's just a bummer. waste of CPU and gigabytes)
It might even be usable with a glide wrapper, so I'd get Windows with OpenGL and Glide, without Direct3D. That is better than nothing at all. It's actually what you get with Voodoo 1 and 2 under e.g. Windows 2000 (probably 7 32bit as well if you're mad enough to run such antiques under Windows 7)

Perhaps there are other software multi-threaded OpenGL renderers. I would only "need" something fast, buggy and inaccurate.

PS : I also remember a story about someone writing a modern software renderer for Quake 1. High framerates at super high res, i.e. tons of megapixels rendered per second on an i7.

[coder]

You could also run Descent II in stereoscopic 3D if you had dual 3DFX cards. I didn't have such a setup but our local Virtuality did and I played it a few times.

There was a special version of Descent 1 that supported stereo LCD glasses from Crystal Graphics. I think it might've been the only game I played with them. This was still using just the software renderer.

I actually played it sitting at a keyboard instead because it was so much better for rapid gross responses, but the helmet tilt/yaw was still nice for fine tuning long range shots.

I forgot how much I loved that game. I'll have to dig it out. :-)

There was also a patch for playing Descent with the SpaceOrb 360, which was a very well-executed 6-DoF controller. Descent was perfect for it, but few other games had the same sort of benefit. Took a while to get the hang of it, but I think it was the ultimate controller for that game.

Most of my time with Descent was spent using a dual joystick setup. I mapped one for thrust and left/right, while the other was used for pitch and yaw. I could circle-strafe the daylights out of anything.

[mczak]

Is software Mesa multithreaded enough to make 40/80 core/thread perform better than a single core with a high frequency and ips?

Better than a single core? Yes.
But there's a hardcoded limit of 16 threads with llvmpipe, it will never use more. (Well really 16 threads for fragment shader (rasterization) loads, plus the main thread for pre-rasterization (mostly vertex shader) loads, albeit due to issues the fragment and vertex loads will never run in parallel).
The limit can be increased rather easily (it's just a define) however due to the non-scaling vertex loads the benefits are likely quite limited.
Though swr should not be affected by these limits, and in particular it should scale much better with vertex shader loads.

[linuxgeex]

Descent II (1996) was another game that had option for full software rendering at the same time as Quake II.
(But ran way faster even on much simpler hardware, among other because it was optimised for indoor-labyrinth type of settings, using some portal-like acceleration)

Actually it could run at anything that was realistically available back then.
Including all possible Tweaked Mode/ XMode resolutions (including less typical like 400x600)
Including high resolution SVGA if VESA BIOS extension were available (I don't remember if Linear Extension was required ? Certainly the DJGPP platform used could also support banked mode).

Descent II ran nicely at 800x600 and 1024x768, but only with linear framebuffer. So it required a Protected Mode driver (AKA VBE 2.0) which could address the card's memory without banking. Similar to Duke3D. Of course, Descent's 3D engine was way better looking and was actually 3D, whereas Duke3D's Build Engine was raycasted like Doom and Rise of the Triad. (no looking straight up or down.)

You could also run Descent II in stereoscopic 3D if you had dual 3DFX cards. I didn't have such a setup but our local Virtuality did and I played it a few times. They had a VR helmet with gyros for pitch/yaw and some sort of air mouse but I actually played it sitting at a keyboard instead because it was so much better for rapid gross responses, but the helmet tilt/yaw was still nice for fine tuning long range shots.

I forgot how much I loved that game. I'll have to dig it out. :-)

[linuxgeex]

Intel was talking up realtime raytracing, in the days prior to Larrabee's cancellation. They even demo'd a ray-tracing mod of some quake version (3?) running on Skulltrail (dual-processor Core 2 Quad).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blfxI1cVOzU

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Skulltrail

Most recently, Imagination was pushing realtime raytracing. Too bad they've fallen on hard times.

https://www.imgtec.com/powervr/ray-tracing/

https://www.imgtec.com/blog/unreal-engine-and-the-ray-tracing-revelation/?utm_source=blog&utm_campaign=related_blog_links&utm_medium=Alex%20Voica&utm_content=introducing-the-brand-new-opengl-es-3-0

I was hoping realtime raytracing would be the next big feature of Apple iProducts (I don't own one, but them doing it might bring along the rest of the industry). But they're no longer going to use Imagination GPUs, so... probably not.

Some games are using real-time raytracing for shadows.

[DMJC]

Ah man, Descent 2, that brings back memories. Wing Commander 1/2/3/4 and Privateer all ran well on a 486. The move to PCI based systems had so many teething issues with DOS. Raytracing always looked great, hence why Privateer's user interface screens and cockpits looked awesome. All pre-rendered using a 3D package. EA later moved to PowerAnimator and SGI hardware for rendering videos/backgrounds/textures/modelling.

[GreatEmerald]

I think UT'04 even had a software renderer! Perhaps that was the last AAA shooter to have one?

Yea, but I never actually got that running. Hmm. (Also, "UT'04" looks rather ambiguous; it's UT2004.)

[DrYak]

I remember changing the settings to full software rendering in UT '99 because of an OpenGL issue. {...} It totally worked in software mode, despite not being as smooth and looking like pixel porridge.

Descent II (1996) was another game that had option for full software rendering at the same time as Quake II.
(But ran way faster even on much simpler hardware, among other because it was optimised for indoor-labyrinth type of settings, using some portal-like acceleration)

I'd have been using something around 320x200 (or 320x240, since it was co-developed by Michael Abrash, who discovered/popularized that mode).

Actually it could run at anything that was realistically available back then.
Including all possible Tweaked Mode/ XMode resolutions (including less typical like 400x600)
Including high resolution SVGA if VESA BIOS extension were available (I don't remember if Linear Extension was required ? Certainly the DJGPP platform used could also support banked mode).

[devius]

I was running original Quake on my 486 DX2/66, 8 MiB RAM, 1 MB VRAM PCI dGPU. It was playable.

Yeah, I also remember stuff from 20 years ago as having super high-resolution, but it was just 640x480, and when revisiting it more recently it didn't look as impressive as it did back then.

I'm sure in your memory it was playable, and you did enjoy it, but it was running at something between 5-10fps, and no more. At the time that was somewhat "normal", but I assure you it wouldn't be as much fun today.

The slowest 486 I tried to run Quake (deathmatch) on back in May of this year on a retro lan party was a 133MHz AMD 5x86 and it wasn't playable. Even on a Pentium 133MHz laptop it would slow down considerably when the action picked up and there were many players and explosions on screen. This was at 320x200.

If you add a 3D accelerator then it will probably run fine, but a 486 alone isn't enough for Quake. Doom on the other hand runs very well on a 66MHz 486.

The first mission pack required ~40 MiB RAM

Actually, it only required 16MB: https://www.mobygames.com/game/quake...magon/techinfo