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Mozilla's Servo Gets A Experimental Renderer To Draw On The GPU

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  • #11
    Originally posted by bug77 View Post
    For all its upsides, Servo is still being developed targeting OpenGL and not Vulkan. For Windows, it only says it's targeting Direct3D, but it's unlikely they're going after Direct3D 12. These may come later, but the engine itself already isn't targeting the latest and greatest from the beginning.
    Considering Servo is at least 4 years old going on github's dates, Vulkan didn't exist (and still kinda doesn't) and D3D12 was merely a whisper on the horizon. They targeted the latest and greatest available at the time.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
      Considering Servo is at least 4 years old going on github's dates, Vulkan didn't exist (and still kinda doesn't) and D3D12 was merely a whisper on the horizon. They targeted the latest and greatest available at the time.
      Wow, 4 years old? I thought it was more recent. Then I guess I can cut it some slack.

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      • #13
        I wish Mozilla would stop trying to conquer new markets and work hard to retake the browser market.

        Their current Firefox operates "less-than-desirable", on certain shells their GTK looks like Windows 9x (and don't tell me I should install a theme to "fix" what should have been cross-theme-compatible in the trunk.)

        It's a shame with the whole Firefox OS, Thunderbird, Firefox Hello Chat client and all these other projects aim to Evolve Firefox & Mozilla - but what they're really doing is distracting from Mozilla's glory product - and like a Attention Deficit Child with homework assignments from a whole 2 weeks ago it's a cluster fsck.

        Chat in Thunderbird? RSS in Thunderbird? Chat in Firefox via Hello? Each implementation is broken - Mozilla needs to learn a thing or two from the Arch Way & Unix Principles about "doing one thing and doing it well".

        They're rebirthing the monstrosity of 1-app-does-all which was the plague that separated Mozilla Browser and Firefox originally Apparently the infection has spread.

        The chat app should have been separate in the beginning. The Password & Sync should have been an app of its own like SeaMonkey. I really wish Mozilla had enough common sense to focus on Servo and get it the fsck into the hands of mainline trunk users. Everything else is not imminently relevant to their future success.

        And when a new Innovation or Idea comes along - maybe they could think - hmmm, Should we do this? instead of Can we do this?

        The answer is usually yes you can weld together a chat app and a browser app and a email app into one monstrosity but you should not.
        Last edited by ElectricPrism; 29 September 2015, 05:41 PM.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by rudregues View Post
          Arch Linux AUR repos has servo-git. I really liked the proposal and I'm installing it right now to test and see how it compares to default firefox (gecko engine).
          I can't compile servo-git without disabling tempfs with 3GB max space for /tmp directory.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by ElectricPrism View Post
            I wish Mozilla would stop trying to conquer new markets and work hard to retake the browser market.

            Their current Firefox operates "less-than-desirable", on certain shells their GTK looks like Windows 9x (and don't tell me I should install a theme to "fix" what should have been cross-theme-compatible in the trunk.)

            It's a shame with the whole Firefox OS, Thunderbird, Firefox Hello Chat client and all these other projects aim to Evolve Firefox & Mozilla - but what they're really doing is distracting from Mozilla's glory product - and like a Attention Deficit Child with homework assignments from a whole 2 weeks ago it's a cluster fsck.

            Chat in Thunderbird? RSS in Thunderbird? Chat in Firefox via Hello? Each implementation is broken - Mozilla needs to learn a thing or two from the Arch Way & Unix Principles about "doing one thing and doing it well".

            They're rebirthing the monstrosity of 1-app-does-all which was the plague that separated Mozilla Browser and Firefox originally Apparently the infection has spread.

            The chat app should have been separate in the beginning. The Password & Sync should have been an app of its own like SeaMonkey. I really wish Mozilla had enough common sense to focus on Servo and get it the fsck into the hands of mainline trunk users. Everything else is not imminently relevant to their future success.

            And when a new Innovation or Idea comes along - maybe they could think - hmmm, Should we do this? instead of Can we do this?

            The answer is usually yes you can weld together a chat app and a browser app and a email app into one monstrosity but you should not.
            Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of Mozilla and Firefox anymore but I've still got to point out a few things...

            1. GTK looking bad on those shells isn't Mozilla's fault, it's that those shells don't like GTK+2. This should be fixed as soon as they switch to GTK+3, and if it's not fixed then it's the shell's fault.

            2. Firefox OS was meant more as an experimental project that they found could actually be used in a real life situation. Just because you don't see FFOS phones in your country doesn't mean they're not being used elsewhere. Thunderbird probably has a higher usage rate than Firefox at this point, so it'd make no sense for them to ditch that. Hello is meant to pair with FFOS phones (like Facetime goes with iPhones except more standards-based).

            3. Chat in thunderbird? Where? RSS in thunderbird is to give it more Outlook-like features (for those making the switch) I assume. I already mentioned Hello.

            4. Chat app is built in so it can run on the phone at proper speeds (without having to use API calls everywhere) and with a moderate amount of security. Password/Sync was built in to mimic the ease-of-use that was pulling users over to Chrome. Servo isn't intended to replace Gecko in Firefox, sorry to say. Only bits and pieces.

            Overall, there are definitely reasons for them doing things other than "We can, and thus we will". They do stupid things too (e.g. the whole "extensions must be signed"), but they're not completely stupid or evil.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by GraysonPeddie View Post

              I can't compile servo-git without disabling tempfs with 3GB max space for /tmp directory.
              I was with this issue too. It must be like libreoffice, firefox and chromium (those packages require a big amount of memory like 8GB or 12GB, so I only disable compile on RAM and use my HDD).

              But now I'm stuck with other problem:
              Code:
              [Warning] Could not generate notification! Please make sure that the python dbus module is installed!
              Build completed in 607.32s
              ==> ERROR: A failure occurred in build().
              Aborting...
              But there is a solution somewhere, since KenjiTakahashi from this topic had the same issue and solved it (sadly he didn't described his steps...)

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              • #17
                Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                In my opinion, they should have designed this with the intention of GPU acceleration from the very beginning. We're not in the 90s anymore - the average GPU can and should be handling page rendering. Of course, there are a handful of modern devices that don't have GPU acceleration, but the current firefox tends to run somewhat slow on those too.
                You have to start somewhere. Servo is written in Rust and it's development started at the same time as Rust, which means that Mozilla was creating Servo as a platform for carrying Rust forward, and vice versa. It's better to worry about optimizing the Rust compiler and Rust's standard library rather than worrying about getting GPU acceleration in Rust so early in the game. Now that Rust is stable, and OpenGL wrappers are available, they can worry about making Servo fast with GPU acceleration. But you have to remember that Rust is just a prototype experiment and not something that's guaranteed to ever be released to the public in Firefox.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by rudregues View Post

                  I was with this issue too. It must be like libreoffice, firefox and chromium (those packages require a big amount of memory like 8GB or 12GB, so I only disable compile on RAM and use my HDD).
                  I solved my problem by masking tmp.mount, which symlinks it to /dev/null.

                  Code:
                  sudo systemctl mask tmp.mount
                  And to clean up the /tmp directory:

                  Code:
                  sudo vim /etc/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf
                  Code:
                  D! /tmp 1777 root root 0
                  D /var/tmp 1777 root root 10d
                  x /tmp/systemd-private-*
                  x /var/tmp/systemd-private-*
                  X /tmp/systemd-private-*/tmp
                  X /var/tmp/systemd-private-*/tmp
                  I found this in here: tmpfs: Disable automatic mount

                  You may need to reboot your system for changes to take effect. If I have 32GB of RAM, then 16GB could be devoted to tmpfs, but why use tmpfs even though I am using traditional hard drive for 120GB for the root partition. If I have 120GB SSD for my root partition, I may need to have at least 16GB or 32GB of RAM, so that I can prolong an SSD. But then I don't know of any programs that would require more than 8GB for compiling. I'm thinking 32GB of RAM should be the minimum for yaourt, especially if you need to compile a bunch of programs.

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                  • #19
                    Engine has to be adaptive to the hardware system and its APIs providing both vga and sound card hardware acceleration on every system supporting this features.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by mmstick View Post

                      You have to start somewhere. Servo is written in Rust and it's development started at the same time as Rust, which means that Mozilla was creating Servo as a platform for carrying Rust forward, and vice versa. It's better to worry about optimizing the Rust compiler and Rust's standard library rather than worrying about getting GPU acceleration in Rust so early in the game. Now that Rust is stable, and OpenGL wrappers are available, they can worry about making Servo fast with GPU acceleration. But you have to remember that Rust is just a prototype experiment and not something that's guaranteed to ever be released to the public in Firefox.
                      Rust isn't new. It came out of a personal project:
                      __

                      Rust has undergone four epochs so far:
                      The Personal Years (2006-2010)
                      The Graydon Years (2010-2012)
                      The Typesystem Years (2012-2014)
                      The Release Year (2015)
                      __



                      They are doing something some what new. A systems language with a new safe memory/type model. Fairly easy like a scripting language, but without garbage collection. It takes time to figure out how best to do that.

                      Also notice this part of the presentation:

                      "Goal: get some Rust into Firefox by the end of 2015."

                      Seems the video wasn't (properly) recorded or I would have linked to that as well:

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