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Apple Announces A New 3D API, OpenGL Competitor: Metal

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  • #71
    Originally posted by jimbohale View Post
    I am floored by most of these comments. Really? You think this is a vendor lock in attempt? Let me tell you what, Apple *ALREADY* has complete vendor lock-in on their phones, this isn't that.
    This isn't vendor lock-in for end-users.
    This is vendor lock-in for mobile game developers.

    Originally posted by jimbohale View Post
    It's not going to bring anyone who uses OpenGL outside of iOS, and it isn't going to prevent anyone from using OpenGL anywhere else.
    Obviously it's not prevent anybody from doing something, but all mobile games initially target iOS marked and only then Android. So it's doesn't mater how fast this Apple API will be because OpenGL ES versions will be slower just because they will be less tested and less polished.

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    • #72
      Originally posted by _SXX_ View Post
      This isn't vendor lock-in for end-users.
      This is vendor lock-in for mobile game developers.

      Obviously it's not prevent anybody from doing something, but all mobile games initially target iOS marked and only then Android. So it's doesn't mater how fast this Apple API will be because OpenGL ES versions will be slower just because they will be less tested and less polished.
      That's just not true. Android is FAR larger on the games side and iOS games aren't particularly a huge thing compared to Android. Additionally, OpenGL ES versions will *not* be slower, that doesn't even make any sense. It's not like OpenGL ES is a batch of code, it's a specification.

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      • #73
        Originally posted by jimbohale View Post
        Additionally, don't be surprised if Apple open sources it. They've open sourced other things in the past and don't seem to have a problem with it. I don't even think it's going to be on OS X.
        What, specifically, has Apple open-sourced themselves that wasn't tightly connected with something already open-source?

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        • #74
          Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
          What, specifically, has Apple open-sourced themselves that wasn't tightly connected with something already open-source?
          How are Bonjour, Cups, Launchd, Webkit, or LLVM tightly "connected" to anything? They all run on OSX, and to my knowledge none of them depend on GPL external packages.

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          • #75
            Originally posted by zanny View Post
            How are Bonjour, Cups, Launchd, Webkit, or LLVM tightly "connected" to anything? They all run on OSX, and to my knowledge none of them depend on GPL external packages.
            CUPS, Webkit (KHTML), and LLVM were all opensource before Apple got involved.

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            • #76
              Looking at the video, it strikes me that Apples "continuity" effort is their internal solution to the "convergence" issues that have detracted (IMHO) from other OS's in the past few years. I'm downloading Yosemite beta as I type this, as it looks fantastic.

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              • #77
                Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
                CUPS, Webkit (KHTML), and LLVM were all opensource before Apple got involved.
                so Bonjour

                Either way, when apple doesn't have a reason to keep something closed they don't seem to, so like I said don't be surprised if they do. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me either way and tbh I don't care considering it has no effect to the majority of people.

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                • #78
                  Originally posted by jimbohale View Post
                  so Bonjour

                  Either way, when apple doesn't have a reason to keep something closed they don't seem to, so like I said don't be surprised if they do. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me either way and tbh I don't care considering it has no effect to the majority of people.
                  I would say it is the other way around: when Apple doesn't have a reason to open-source something, that pretty much never do. In fact, it seems Microsoft is more likely to open-source their stuff voluntarily than Apple is.

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                  • #79
                    Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
                    Of course, I'm not questioning that. My comment was more to say that Unity3D folks are excitable.
                    It's not only Unity folks.

                    https://twitter.com/repi/status/473595060727349249
                    @aras_p same here! Let's do a beer (or many) next time we run into each other and share some stories
                    Johan Andersson from DICE seems to agree that porting to Metal was quick.

                    http://venturebeat.com/2014/06/03/gr...e-efficiently/
                    GamesBeat: If I understand correctly, now a developer can write directly to Metal, and the game engines do the work of translating that so you can run on something else besides that hardware.

                    Tim Sweeney: That’s right. Metal is a low-level rendering API, which means it provides the absolute minimum layer of software needed to support multiple versions of different graphics chips. It shields developers from the very low-level implementation details. It replaces OpenGL ES, which is an ancient relic of the Silicon Graphics era.
                    GamesBeat: Do you see this as something like AMD’s Mantle, a similar effort to what they’ve done? Or is it different in some way?

                    Sweeney: Yes, Mantle is another low-level API. Microsoft and Sony have similar low-level APIs on their consoles. DirectX 12 is an attempt to create a low-level rendering API for the next version of Windows. It’s a general trend in the market. We’re happy to see Apple leading the way with mobile devices. OpenGL ES is the bane of our existence there, because it not only has a lot of overhead, but it has all that overhead on the platform where you can least afford it. You have these small devices which are limited by their power consumption and heat generation. The more efficiency you can get out of the graphics API, the more you can do as far as immediate improvements in graphics quality.
                    And Tim Sweeney from Epic calls OpenGL ES a relic and the bane of their existence.

                    It shouldn't be surprising that the top game engine developers are enthusiastic about Metal. Apple consulted with them when designing Metal. You'd think they'd be happy with something they helped design. And because these are the top game engine developers it seems more likely that them saying its efficient and effective is not just words, but because they helped design it that way.

                    Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
                    What, specifically, has Apple open-sourced themselves that wasn't tightly connected with something already open-source?
                    The most relevant example of Apple partnering with the broader community is them developing OpenCL and then giving to Khronos to standardize. It's still unknown whether Metal is abstract enough to target other GPU architectures or if it's really designed around the PowerVR Series6. If it can target other architectures, then the question is whether Apple will give it to Khronos.
                    Last edited by ltcommander.data; 03 June 2014, 05:11 PM.

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                    • #80
                      Originally posted by ltcommander.data View Post
                      ...It's still unknown whether Metal is abstract enough to target other GPU architectures or if it's really designed around the PowerVR Series6. If it can target other architectures, then the question is whether Apple will give it to Khronos.
                      Metal being an Objective-C API, I doubt even Apple expect it to become a standard.

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