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Apple Announces A New 3D API, OpenGL Competitor: Metal

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  • Originally posted by johnc View Post
    what a joke
    So you don't believe somebody that has actually worked with Metal?

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    • Originally posted by rikkinho View Post
      how much apple paid???

      lol

      linux, continue with opengl and bring more support to opengl es, we don't need nothing different
      I have to wonder what BS will come out of your mouth when Mantle runs on Linux and there is a mad rush to use it.

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      • You do realize Metal is for Apples A7's at this point and very likely the coming A8. AMD has nothing to do with this, Metal is simply a software solution to performance on A7 based hardware.

        Originally posted by DMJC View Post
        I see a LOT of AMD Users being very butthurt over AMD's poor quality engineering team. Open source drivers are getting there and the performance is coming with the engineering. But NVIDIA has always had good OpenGL support and it's fast. Maybe people should stop blaming OpenGL and start blaming their crap GPU vendor. Intel has never been into making hard-core GPU chips. But they are actually making pretty reasonable progress making decent entry level cards. AMD has had years to get this stuff right, and doesn't hire anywhere near enough people to get this job done. It's time to stop launching 50 different API's and start pressuring AMD to put real resources into getting the job done right. I know this will come off as trolling to a lot of people. But come on, they've had more than a decade to get GL support correct. Intel gets it done first try. They just aren't making super fast GPUs. AMD obviously has a software engineering resourcing problem. I think Apple's metal is their latest attempt to make up for AMD's engineering shortcomings, else it's just Apple's way to avoid porting any legacy API code to iOS/Mac OSX.

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        • Originally posted by jimbohale View Post
          The reason they're doing Swift is likely just because they're not content with Objective-C anymore (realistically, who else besides Apple used it on a large scale).
          This is pretty much what people at Apple has said, Objective C has pretty much ran its course as a technology. It is a rather old technology too, close to 35 years old now.
          It's not similar at all to Go structurally, it's more of a functional language where functions are first-class, much like Scala. It uses one file instead of two (header & object are the same thing). It might *look* similar to Go to a non-Go or a non-Swift programmer, but it's not even remotely close. Again, far more similar to Scala than to Go. Either way, I suspect their primary reason for Swift is that they wanted to make it easier than Objective C. It's very well documented, and interoperability is good between the two.
          It would really help if people knocking Swift and metal would spend some time on Apples developer web site and actually inform themselves, as you point out Swift incorporates many modern features from a number of languages.


          NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.

          WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.

          Right now, OpenGL ES from iOS to Android is not very similar. Yes, it technically has some of the same method names but realistically they're DIFFERENT PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES. Think about that for a moment. Yes, that means entirely different because Objective C and Java are not very similar. At the moment it's *already* very difficult to port from one to the other, it's not as easy as you make it sound.

          You are everything that is wrong with the tech world, and please just take a break until you realize what is true and what is false. You're hurting everyone by making these stupid comments and assumptions.
          All this crap about lock in is just silly to me. A 3D API is the least likely thing to cause significant porting issues.

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          • Originally posted by berolinux View Post
            Except Android is in no way tied to Java. Use the NDK and you can write C and C++ code, and you're already a lot closer (and yes, Android has a C OpenGL ES library).
            Hack the NDK a little and you can write Objective-C code (Edit the rebuilt scripts that come with the NDK to use --enable-languages=objc when building gcc, then rebuild. Bundle the libobjc runtime library with your app. And yes, I've actually done this, so I know what I'm talking about) - and suddenly porting iOS code that uses standard APIs like OpenGL ES becomes an easy and quick thing (iOS code that heavily relies on Cocoa Touch is a different matter).

            That's why Apple is scared of standard APIs.
            Baloney! This is all about performance nothing more.

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            • Originally posted by wizard69 View Post
              All this crap about lock in is just silly to me. A 3D API is the least likely thing to cause significant porting issues.
              Yeah, that's why there are just as many OpenGL games as Direct3D games on the PC.

              ...ohh, wait...

              But it's good to have the Lt. Official Apple Fanboy on hand to straighten us all out.

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              • Originally posted by wizard69 View Post
                The vast major it of those Android users don't have hardware even capable of running the games that run on Apples hardware.
                Totally, dude! Apple hardware ftw!

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                • Originally posted by johnc View Post
                  Yeah, that's why there are just as many OpenGL games as Direct3D games on the PC.

                  ...ohh, wait...

                  But it's good to have the Lt. Official Apple Fanboy on hand to straighten us all out.
                  This is what makes you SO wrong. Someone says you're wrong and that instantly makes them a fanboy. I don't believe you're talking about me since I wasn't quoted, but I defended Metal as something that isn't as ridiculous as you think it is, and therefore fall under your spectrum of fanboy. YOU are the reason this scene isn't taken seriously. YOU.

                  What you've said is a fallacy. Direct3D generally works better on Windows which is the dominant platform on computers and is much easier to program for. I don't believe real programmers care very much about which 3D api they use, I think most real programmers learn them all (or the relevant ones such as OpenGL* or Direct3D, at the moment) and will use whichever is most suited. I think that this is a non-issue that non-3d programmers need to fuck off. You should focus on the real issues, such as whether or not Swift is going to be open sourced (which we don't know yet, that's a WAY bigger deal than Metal). If it is, then good, otherwise that's a much bigger example of vendor lock-in than Metal. An entire programming language and base APIs vs a single 3D api that's written specifically for a minority of devices.

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                  • Originally posted by jimbohale View Post
                    Someone says you're wrong and that instantly makes them a fanboy.
                    He's not a fanboy because he said I'm wrong, he's a fanboy because he posted 20 straight messages extolling the amazing impeccable flawlessness of Apple. And this isn't the first time he's done that.

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                    • Originally posted by johnc View Post
                      He's not a fanboy because he said I'm wrong, he's a fanboy because he posted 20 straight messages extolling the amazing impeccable flawlessness of Apple. And this isn't the first time he's done that.
                      In this particular thread I haven't seen him *at all* extoll the flawlessness of Apple. I happen to agree with his statements, including as a programmer that Swift is an improvement over Objective-C, for a lot of reasons. I also agree that having a different 3D api isn't the biggest thing in terms of porting apps. Maybe if Mantle was actually open they *might* have adopted that instead. Realistically probably not because this is a very specialized 3D API.

                      All I'm saying is that you guys need to stop focusing on what Apple is doing in their little corner of their minor market share on their phones and focus on what actually COULD have an effect, which is Swift. You guys should focus on it being open source. It has a FAR larger impact, and it runs on OS X as well as iOS. It's much harder to port a Swift application to C or C++ than it is to port an Objective-C application although admittedly it's still harder, a C++ application is going to be structured similarly to an Objective-C application so it's doable in steps while Swift entirely changes quite a few things and things like functions as a first class citizen don't have replacements, same with random things like it's mapping functions. Personally I hope Swift is open sourced and it winds up overtaking C++, but that's just me. It has nothing to do with me being an Apple fanboy because I'm not, it has everything to do with me using Swift and using C++, and much preferring Swift because I respect when something is good regardless of who it is from.

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