Working Towards Lower OpenGL Driver Overhead

[Marc Driftmeyer]

there is no point in mantle on linux. right now, their opengl is still subpar and i would prefer them fixing that 1st and then add another unfinished layer. adding subpar mantle which would be probably beta until 2019 would just add to bugs on amd unless you prefer having buggy gl+beta mantle

Fortunately for us all, you don't determine priorities for AMD and Game Developers. Sorry, but the resources for OpenGL and Mantle will continue moving forward at what financially best suits AMD, not you.

That's good because OpenGL improvements in Mesa for AMD, Nvidia, Intel aren't making those three big bucks. Gaming is making AMD and Nvidia money and Intel can afford to dump money down a rat hole slowly improving OpenGL for Mesa. They're competing for other markets.

Your 2019 is non-factual hogwash. Game Devs dictate when Mantle is ready for Linux and the more they move to Linux the more resources will be getting Mantle optimized for Non-Windows platforms.

Even OS X will help considerably getting Mantle ported more rapidly, now with AMD's expansion into Apple hardware.

[Marc Driftmeyer]

Doubt it, year a go amd's vice president said that there won't be dx12, which microsoft shot down fast saying there will be.

DirectX12 is Mantle+DirectX11.2.

[log0]

If you have been using bind in every draw loop you have been doing it wrong.

Not really, depends on what you are doing of course. I've only skimmed it, but the fast stuff in the slides seems to need very recent OpenGL.

[Kraut]

We can be happy to get any improvements at all with the duopoly of AMD and Nvidia. Or do you think without mantle there would be any serious push for streamlining OGL and D3D?

The basic concept of mantle is looking really really nice.
No stupid driver threads... no stupid guessing of the driver what you want.... no stupid double and triple copying of data just to get it from A to B... and so on...
But it looks so different from OGL/D3D that the required changes would essential make them into new APIs. So why not give it a new name then? Like for example: mantle.

People not only want a thin API for easy of use/having control. They also want it because big bloated drivers are buggy... and this is not only the case for AMD! Like every new AAA Game title needs a driver upgrade.
Thin APIs would be easier to implement as oss driver, too!

[johnc]

We can be happy to get any improvements at all with the duopoly of AMD and Nvidia. Or do you think without mantle there would be any serious push for streamlining OGL and D3D?

Considering these OGL improvements have been available in some stages for years before Mantle was even announced, and apparently DX12 has been in design for years as well, I don't think it has anything to do with Mantle. The fact is, the APIs are getting updates to reflect the improvements made by the duopoly at the hardware level. Of course in the case of OGL this is handled initially with vendor extensions.

The basic concept of mantle is looking really really nice.
No stupid driver threads... no stupid guessing of the driver what you want.... no stupid double and triple copying of data just to get it from A to B... and so on...
But it looks so different from OGL/D3D that the required changes would essential make them into new APIs. So why not give it a new name then? Like for example: mantle.

People not only want a thin API for easy of use/having control. They also want it because big bloated drivers are buggy... and this is not only the case for AMD! Like every new AAA Game title needs a driver upgrade.
Thin APIs would be easier to implement as oss driver, too!

If AMD's engineering department was merely half as effective as their marketing department, they would own the GPU market by a significant margin.

[toka]

Proof: video

I have seen Video of demos using Mantle. Are there videos for dx12? Not screenshots, but actual videos.

Yeah, a video could be a fake, let us just assume, the video is not a fake. Are there any videos offered by Microsoft?

[tuke81]

I have seen Video of demos using Mantle. Are there videos for dx12? Not screenshots, but actual videos.

Yeah, a video could be a fake, let us just assume, the video is not a fake. Are there any videos offered by Microsoft?

No, But they ran forza 5 demo with d3d12 renderer on pc with titan black on gdc:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwSzpuRR2FI

[shaurz]

The great thing about Mantle is that it created some competition and got people to seriously look at reducing the overhead of OpenGL and DirectX.

It's like when Mir was announced the development work on Wayland seemed to kick up a gear or two (maybe it's my imagination, but that's the impression I got).

[johnc]

The great thing about Mantle is that it created some competition and got people to seriously look at reducing the overhead of OpenGL and DirectX.

Weren't these OpenGL features available for well over a year before Mantle was announced? And it seems that DX12 has been cooking for years now?

[Awesome Donkey]

Love hearing about OpenGL! Also I have a feeling Mantle is just the testbed for DirectX 12 until its release. Why else would they announce the API so close to DirectX 12's announcement. Since it seems DX12 is still a year to a year and a half away from launch, it makes sense to test the ideas in Mantle before changing everything over to DX12.