Sorry but then whats the point if the goals are not completed.
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Originally posted by timothyja View PostIf the ideas in this thread get of the ground we will be hiring developers to work TOWARD goals and they will get paid regardless of completing of those goals. This is just how things work in the real word. I do agree that sponsors should be able to preference what they want worked on but these will be the goals that developer work towards. Bountys are not sustainable.
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I don't see that as a problem, if it gets big. If people are missing a feature they would just keep adding money until somebody thinks it's enaugh for the time it will take to develop it.
If the ideas in this thread get of the ground we will be hiring developers to work TOWARD goals and they will get paid regardless of completing of those goals. This is just how things work in the real word. I do agree that sponsors should be able to preference what they want worked on but these will be the goals that developer work towards. Bountys are not sustainable.
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Originally posted by patrik View PostI totally get you, but It depends on what you think a feature is. I'll try to explain with an analogy: You're building a house and someone installs the toilets, sinks and showers. This is what the residents (users) need. The problem is that the guy installing those things can have it done in 2 days, but they guy doing the plumbing had to work for 2 weeks. The people paying for the job shouldn't be the ones who decide who gets what since they don't understand the complexity of how things are interconnected.
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Contracts:
There must be contracts, obviously.
Developers have to properly pay taxes on income (in most, if not all countries).
Otherwise this may suddenly turn into a problem of the project itself.
Financial aspects:
Someone has to administer the money/pools.
Committee:
I agree, there should be one.
But who should be approached and what exactly should they decide on.
Infrastructure:
A well-reasoned website is required with all the voting and money-transaction back-ends.
.
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I don't want to be too pessimistic but I'm not sure someone is actually willing to start this project.
There are plenty of more or less tough questions to be solved first.
Contracts:
There must be contracts, obviously.
Developers have to properly pay taxes on income (in most, if not all countries).
Otherwise this may suddenly turn into a problem of the project itself.
Financial aspects:
Someone has to administer the money/pools.
Committee:
I agree, there should be one.
But who should be approached and what exactly should they decide on.
Infrastructure:
A well-reasoned website is required with all the voting and money-transaction backends.
It could be a good idea to ask for support at some companies with a proven Linux/OSS-affinity.
The Humble Bundle guys, for instance. Maybe they are willing to provide advice concerning
infrastructure and financial aspects. They sure do have the knowledge.
Concerning 'contracts'; the X.Org EVoC people should know what to take care of, I assume.
It may be a bit far fetched, but still.
How about asking Michael to help approaching VALVE and asking for support?
This does not mean "money" but the professional backing to get this thing started.
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Originally posted by ChrisXY View PostWell, the idea is that it is transparent how much money is in every pool so that developers are really free to choose what and how much to do and that if you sign up to develop a feature you get legal security that you get the money from the pool. So if a feature has low priority it will get less money and developers would probably prefer the features that have more money, which probably means it is more important to users since they put their money there...
And if you are like a developer today that would do a low priority feature anyway you would still get the little money there as a bonus.
Developers needing the money fast is unfortunate but on the other hand you wouldn't want to give money to people who just claim to be able to do things. I put that later in that when a developer is deemed to be trustworthy and skilked enaugh a committee could give out money in advance or that when you and the committee come to an agreement that what you did was about 15% of the work you could get about 15% of the money. That would require a technically competent committee, obviously.
But, hey I'm not really convinced of that myself. Just an idea that in my eyes has some benefits. I'm just speculating on this getting big. And by big I mean reaching and exceeding the salary of normally hired programmers. But I don't even know if there is so much interest from people willing to pay in the open drivers. But then, this would be a worldwide initiative. World wide! Considering that mesa&gallium is the open 3d stack and there's still not more financial support is kind of discouraging but maybe crowd sourcing could help that a little.
That's not exactly what I meant it for but yes. Another task could be providing a set of default pools with descriptions what that feature is, why it is needed and what it is not.
My idea was rather for it to 1. provide fair distribution of the money in both directions: Making sure a developer gets paid his fair share for what he does as well as making sure there are no developers trying to scam money out without doing all the work
2. and doing compromises.
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Originally posted by 89c51 View Posti dont think anyone said that OpenGL 4.x (or any other feature for the matter) is or will be easy. Most people would like to know how much will it cost in total. Number of devs, time etc must be included in the final price.
Then we can set up a website and start collecting donations until we reach the money target.
Guarantees can be given but they come at a price. You have to spend a lot of time planning and read up on every piece that you are going to do (time that also needs to be paid for somehow). Then double or tripple it.
The Pandora project is a good example. People have been waiting for years on their hardware, and I have no doubt that the pandora team is doing the best they can.
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I think that there is a lot of people that wants to contribute to different projects...
But not having a credit card to do it makes things difficult...
Maybe adding other ways to contribute (without credit card) could help...
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Originally posted by patrik View PostI've been freelancing for 5 years and I would never put myself in a situation where I'm unsure when or if I get paid at all.
And if you are like a developer today that would do a low priority feature anyway you would still get the little money there as a bonus.
Originally posted by patrik View PostEvery hour spent must give something back or I cannot pay my rent. It's that simple.
But, hey I'm not really convinced of that myself. Just an idea that in my eyes has some benefits. I'm just speculating on this getting big. And by big I mean reaching and exceeding the salary of normally hired programmers. But I don't even know if there is so much interest from people willing to pay in the open drivers. But then, this would be a worldwide initiative. World wide! Considering that mesa&gallium is the open 3d stack and there's still not more financial support is kind of discouraging but maybe crowd sourcing could help that a little.
Originally posted by patrik View PostA committee is a good idea. A few people with technical insight who can act as a barrier between the people donating and the developer. Those who donate might be screaming about OpenGL 4.2 but have no clue to what it really is about or how hard it is to implement. They just need it for game X or Y because it says so on the box.
My idea was rather for it to 1. provide fair distribution of the money in both directions: Making sure a developer gets paid his fair share for what he does as well as making sure there are no developers trying to scam money out without doing all the work
2. and doing compromises.
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