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KWin May Drop Support For Catalyst, Vintage GPUs

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  • #71
    Originally posted by slojam View Post
    This is a bad decision and I don't support it. Thanks for moving backwards.

    Drop fglrx, and I will drop KDE. hmm yes maybe its time to move on.
    This position doesn't make any sense. KDE runs superbly well with the open source Radeon drivers, and it runs very poorly with fglrx.

    You are, in effect, threating to drop KDE unless it allows you to stick to experiencing abysmal performance.

    Frankly, I don't get it.

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    • #72
      Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
      Obviously I was talking about KWin, even though that propitiatory.
      Kwin isn't at all proprietary. The open source Radeon drivers aren't proprietary. The Kwin project can hope to have some sway over the open source Radeon drivers.

      fglrx is proprietary. The Kwin project has no sway over it whatsoever.

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      • #73
        Originally posted by hal2k1 View Post
        This position doesn't make any sense. KDE runs superbly well with the open source Radeon drivers, and it runs very poorly with fglrx.
        Stop being a fan boi. The fglrx drivers are the fastest, probably 4x the speed of the open source ones for 3D. Not to mention they are more compatible with Wine. I'm all for the open source drivers improving but they need to get their features rich before people are going to want to use then as a whole solution.

        Weigh up the situation:

        * Linux dev should always aim for the fastest speed, the smallest footprint, and the most features.
        * Will the change to drop 3d OGL1 be a bigger improvement then the lost speed of fglrx drivers.
        * How long will AMD-ATI users be disadvantaged under KDE.
        * How many users will KDE lose, considering the people that like AMD-ATI are the same types to like the sophisticated offerings of KDE.
        * Could Trolltech do a survey to fathom the user base between Nvidia, ATI, Intel.

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        • #74
          Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
          Stop being a fan boi. The fglrx drivers are the fastest, probably 4x the speed of the open source ones for 3D. Not to mention they are more compatible with Wine. I'm all for the open source drivers improving but they need to get their features rich before people are going to want to use then as a whole solution.

          Weigh up the situation:

          * Linux dev should always aim for the fastest speed, the smallest footprint, and the most features.
          * Will the change to drop 3d OGL1 be a bigger improvement then the lost speed of fglrx drivers.
          * How long will AMD-ATI users be disadvantaged under KDE.
          * How many users will KDE lose, considering the people that like AMD-ATI are the same types to like the sophisticated offerings of KDE.
          * Could Trolltech do a survey to fathom the user base between Nvidia, ATI, Intel.
          Stop being a fan boi. The extremely minor segment of the Linux user base who are gamers is **NOT** a good reason to want to cripple KDE desktop performance.

          ATI/AMD users are **NOT** disadvantaged under KDE, in actual fact they are users who enjoy the best value-for-money performance of Linux desktop software under KDE.

          As for your comment "Linux dev should always aim for the fastest speed, the smallest footprint, and the most features" ... Linux devs do in fact do just exactly that. Their effort so far is the Radeon open source driver, not fglrx.
          Last edited by hal2k1; 02-21-2012, 07:20 PM.

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          • #75
            I prefer the radeon driver but on my laptop I have had to switch to the blob to keep save power. And for gaming the open driver is to slow, be it wine or not, the open driver can even be a bit slow running my desktop in certen situations.
            Last edited by Janell6754; 02-21-2012, 10:20 PM.

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            • #76
              I think that is a easy situation to understand, in my laptop amd turion x2 more ati hd4650 mobility, the temperature is more high than 87 degrees, is absolutely dangerous but with catalyst my laptot stay at 70 degrees, for gaming I prefer windows, i don't have a problem with it, but my laptop is absolutely hot with radeon driver.

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              • #77
                All AMD has to do is fix direct rendering + TFP

                By the time this happens next year, they may well have done that. If only to get Gnome Shell working properly. Recent releases have been making some progress in this area, although it's hard to say if that was an actual goal of the fglrx team or just a coincidence.

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                • #78
                  Why is KDE not try the OpenGL ES 2.0 Implementation in den fglrx? Since 10.8 or 10.9 its in the Catalyst package available for all Radeon GPUs since HD2xxx.

                  I have no problem with dropping the Ogl 1 path but first fix the problems with Ogl2 path or find an other solution.

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                  • #79
                    Originally posted by hal2k1 View Post
                    This position doesn't make any sense. KDE runs superbly well with the open source Radeon drivers, and it runs very poorly with fglrx.

                    You are, in effect, threating to drop KDE unless it allows you to stick to experiencing abysmal performance.

                    Frankly, I don't get it.
                    It makes perfect sense.
                    I for instance am not running fglrx just because of KDE but because of OpenCL (distributed.net anyone?, Bitcoin?).
                    I use it due to better power management.
                    And Video acceleration.

                    I will continue using it just for these reasons. If KDE will not let me - Gnome is there.
                    Maybe AMD will sort it out anyway to run Gnome Shell. Then this is a non-issue.

                    I assume I'm not too special about this topic. I'm just a user who wants to use the system. Not fiddle with configs. If it doesn't run, I change to something that works. And usually I don't come back until some other problem forces me to do so.
                    So i do think that KDE might lose a significant part of its AMD-user base if people will be let alone on this one.

                    OT:
                    But then again, it seems to be one of the major trends in the linux environment to break things.
                    - Pulseaudio with KDE is a pain in the neck
                    - KMail -> KMail2
                    - The vast majority of KDE releases before 4.6
                    - Desktopsearch (Beagle -> Strigi/Nepomuk)
                    - Playing a simple Audio CD from the CD drive (without actually ripping it. just playing...)
                    - Kernel APIs that keep requiring rebuilding modules like fglrx after EVEREY single kernel patch. I hope for improvement due to EFI and signed drivers
                    - ... I could go on....


                    cheers,
                    Martin

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                    • #80
                      gnome shell works fine

                      Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                      By the time this happens next year, they may well have done that. If only to get Gnome Shell working properly. Recent releases have been making some progress in this area, although it's hard to say if that was an actual goal of the fglrx team or just a coincidence.
                      infact catalyst 12.1 with gnome shell and clutter vblank off, works brilliantly. May be i have a weak card (6370 M 512 VRAM) for open source drivers but I have always experienced smoother performance with fglrx and kde

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