Wine Devs Have Mixed Feelings Over Direct3D In Gallium3D

[pingufunkybeat]

I was wrong actually. MS did not get sued for half a billion euro, they got [b]sentenced[b] to fines of several billion euro already, the latest one being the EU ruling.

Several billion dollars just for killing competitors unfairly. Billions.

Yeah, let's implement their technology, because they are full of love, and will be happy that people are using their stuff.

Then, when they try to kill Linux graphics (like they tried with Linux Java, Linux HTML, Linux messenging, Linux interoperability with SAMBA/NTFS/FAT), The Gallium3d developers can sue them :/

Great plan.

[BlackStar]

OpenGL 4.0 is the result of standardization. You may have noticed that those "D3D11 features" were OpenGL extensions before they were D3D11 features.

No, there were certainly no tesselation or hull shader extensions on OpenGL before OpenGL 4.0 was released.

You are either misinformed or deliberately misleading.

[mirv]

No, there were certainly no tesselation or hull shader extensions on OpenGL before OpenGL 4.0 was released.

You are either misinformed or deliberately misleading.

No core functions - but tessellation most certainly did exist.

http://developer.amd.com/gpu_assets/...essellator.pdf

[BlackStar]

OpenGL on Windows is horrendously outdated by hand of Microsoft. OpenGL is broken on Windows.

Citation needed.

Because this sure as hell isn't true. Windows 7 install OpenGL drivers automatically through windows update, at least on Nvidia hardware.

In the scientific community, where these problems are moot, nobody cares about Direct3D.

In the VR community yes. In the rest of the scientific community, no.

Simulations, CAD, 3d modelling, GPGPU and pretty much every other GPU-related community use D3D more often than not.

What are NVIDIA and ATI going to do, wait until Microsoft approves of their work and releases a new version of Direct3D? No, they work very much like the browser vendors. They create their extensions to OpenGL, and work together as part of Khronos on standardization.

Do you know how D3D is designed or are you pulling stuff out of your ass? Microsoft works with Nvidia, Ati and Intel to determine the desirable hardware features and design D3D n+1 to expose specifically those features.

OpenGL pretty much follows what Nvidia, Ati and Microsoft dictate for D3D. Which is why we are talking about OpenGL 4.0 catching up with D3D11 in terms of features.

[Remco]

No, there were certainly no tesselation or hull shader extensions on OpenGL before OpenGL 4.0 was released.

You are either misinformed or deliberately misleading.

You can't have missed this. AMD had tesselation well before OpenGL 4.0 was released. That's one of those proprietary extensions driving standardization.

I'm not sure which extension it is, but I think it's this one: http://www.opengl.org/registry/specs...essellator.txt

[BlackStar]

No core functions - but tessellation most certainly did exist.

http://developer.amd.com/gpu_assets/...essellator.pdf

It already existed since 2002 on Ati hardware ("Truform") but in a completely different form than what made it into D3D11. IIRC, even R600 has some tesselation hardware which is incompatible with D3D11 tesselation. This has always been exposed via extensions.

[pingufunkybeat]

I don't know which scientific community you people are talking about, but Linux is very big in all the communities I'm aware of.

I've yet to see anyone use D3D for visualisation, but I've used (and seen other people use) plenty of OpenGL.

This can of course vary a lot between different branches.

[BlackStar]

You can't have missed this. AMD had tesselation well before OpenGL 4.0 was released. That's one of those proprietary extensions driving standardization.

I'm not sure which extension it is, but I think it's this one: http://www.opengl.org/registry/specs...essellator.txt

It already existed since 2002 on Ati hardware ("Truform") but in a completely different form than what made it into D3D11. IIRC, even R600 has some tesselation hardware which is incompatible with D3D11 tesselation. This has always been exposed via extensions.

D3D11-level tesselation is exposed via this extension: http://www.opengl.org/registry/specs...ion_shader.txt

As far as I can tell, your extension seems to refer to the older, R600-level tesselation hardware.

[BlackStar]

I don't know which scientific community you people are talking about, but Linux is very big in all the communities I'm aware of.

I've yet to see anyone use D3D for visualisation, but I've used (and seen other people use) plenty of OpenGL.

This can of course vary a lot between different branches.

I have worked on VR which is pretty much OpenGL-only. However, I've seen many people rely on D3D on other fields. Or even XNA (I can understand why, but ugh!)

Research on 3d techniques is almost always done on D3D (probably because these techniques will be applied on games first).

[Remco]

Citation needed.

Because this sure as hell isn't true. Windows 7 install OpenGL drivers automatically through windows update, at least on Nvidia hardware.

Good luck with that. Why oh why does this project exist? http://code.google.com/p/angleproject/

In the VR community yes. In the rest of the scientific community, no.

Simulations, CAD, 3d modelling, GPGPU and pretty much every other GPU-related community use D3D more often than not.

Not on my university. I guess it's not the same everywhere. The nodes on our university have a bunch of NVIDIA hardware powered by Linux. They migrated from some UNIX system to Linux, by the way, because everybody else in the world uses Linux, too. It's kinda hard to have your papers accepted if your results are from some alien system nobody's heard of.

Do you know how D3D is designed or are you pulling stuff out of your ass? Microsoft works with Nvidia, Ati and Intel to determine the desirable hardware features and design D3D n+1 to expose specifically those features.

OpenGL pretty much follows what Nvidia, Ati and Microsoft dictate for D3D. Which is why we are talking about OpenGL 4.0 catching up with D3D11 in terms of features.

OpenGL users have been using Ati's tesselation features while Microsoft was still promoting D3D10 as the big revolution. Eventually it was standardized and beat into shape for D3D11 and OpenGL 4.0. Yes, standardization made it better. That's awesome.