Direct3D 10/11 Is Now Natively Implemented On Linux!

[V!NCENT]

I doubt that many people change their browser strings. I don't personally know anybody that has done that and I also seriously doubt there are hordes of Ubuntu users changing their browser strings. Wouldn't we have more Windows users of Firefox having changed their browser strings back in the day than total Linux users anyway? Nobody ever brings that up.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/59/

6,251,339 downloads

It used to be a workaround for Hotmail, because the user agent checker code in Hotmail would not only check for Firefox, but also for Firefox on Windows, which mean the Firefox on Linux user agent wasn't recognised as Firefox and thus as a browser not supported by Hotmail.

So if you wanted to check yout Hotmail on Linux, you had to have a user agent switcher

[yotambien]

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/59/
6,251,339 downloads

It used to be a workaround for Hotmail, because the user agent checker code in Hotmail would not only check for Firefox, but also for Firefox on Windows, which mean the Firefox on Linux user agent wasn't recognised as Firefox and thus as a browser not supported by Hotmail.

So if you wanted to check yout Hotmail on Linux, you had to have a user agent switcher

HOW INTERESTING

If you go to detailed statistics for that add-on, you'll find:

a) The average daily users currently amounts to about 400,000
b) The breakdown by OS for Sep. 2010 shows:

WINNT: 6,945,962
Darwin: 1,209,132
Linux: 1,182,127


This further convinces me that the effect of changing the user-agent string in browser statistics is absolutely minimal.

[kazetsukai]

Feature parity it may have but you cannot use those features in OpenGL because Nvidia's and Ati's drivers are too unstable.

What specific bugs?

(c) D3D won't be MS-exclusive once Linux supports it, will it?

They control the spec! They can therefore, purposefully break things, which has been Microsoft's MO since their conception.

(c) MS taking de facto ownership of 3D wouldn't be such a bad thing, considering how awful the 3d stacks on Linux/BSD/Mac/Unix are.

Oh? Look what they did to web technology over the past 10 years. Its been stagnating because of their browser monopoly.

I'd say that abandoning OpenGL for a MS-exclusive technology just so you can get some games is akin to suicide.

Microsoft's attempts have nothing to do with this. If OpenGL dies there just isn't another API, and thats the real threat of implementing D3D on Linux. On the suicide point, I agree.

Then again, all of these APIs will continue to lose relevance as raytracing becomes a more viable realtime solution in the next 10-20 years. Hopefully.

[BlackStar]

What specific bugs?

Broken framebuffer blits and tranform feedback (Ati)
Broken viewport arrays (Nvidia)
Inconsistent handling of precision qualifiers in shaders (Nvidia)
Inconsistent handling of uniform buffers (Ati & Nvidia)
Inconsistent handling of arrays in shaders (Ati & Nvidia & Intel)

Just check the forums on http://opengl.org.

They control the spec! They can therefore, purposefully break things, which has been Microsoft's MO since their conception.

They cannot break the spec without alienating their developer base.

Oh? Look what they did to web technology over the past 10 years. Its been stagnating because of their browser monopoly.

And what do browsers have to do with 3d APIs? Oh, right, NOTHING.

3d technology has become stronger than ever under Microsoft's leadership. The OpenGL ARB/Khronos were nowhere to be found between 2002-2008.

[mirv]

3d technology has become stronger than ever under Microsoft's leadership. The OpenGL ARB/Khronos were nowhere to be found between 2002-2008.

I really think you should look into the history of microsoft with opengl. 3D APIs would likely be far ahead of where they are now if not for microsoft.
A simple google of "microsoft opengl dirty tricks" will suffice.

[BlackStar]

I really think you should look into the history of microsoft with opengl. 3D APIs would likely be far ahead of where they are now if not for microsoft.
A simple google of "microsoft opengl dirty tricks" will suffice.

The first 10 results are either irrelevant or blatantly wrong. Do you have any specific such tricks in mind?

[mirv]

The first 10 results are either irrelevant or blatantly wrong. Do you have any specific such tricks in mind?

First result from google:

http://grokdoc.net/index.php/Dirty_Tricks_history

[BlackStar]

http://grokdoc.net/index.php/Dirty_Tricks_history#OpenGL

So this accuses Microsoft of abandoning Fahrenheit3d, which is not pertinent to OpenGL or our discussion, and of requiring 3d drivers for OpenGL to work. Eh, duh?

Also, this little gem:

In addition, MS Windows Vista (Longhorn) has further crippled support for OpenGL by completely relegating it to a video-card driver supplied interface. OpenGL won't be supported by MS natively if you choose to run any of the "nifty" 3D themes or animations promised for that OS/ [...]

This is blatantly wrong on all possible levels:
- OpenGL has always been "relegated" to "video-card driver supplied interface" regardless of the OS.
- Vista is the first Microsoft OS to natively support hardware-accelerated OpenGL without installing OpenGL drivers
- you can use OpenGL on Aero just fine

Got any better links?

[mirv]

http://grokdoc.net/index.php/Dirty_T...history#OpenGL

So this accuses Microsoft of abandoning Fahrenheit3d, which is not pertinent to OpenGL or our discussion, and of requiring 3d drivers for OpenGL to work. Eh, duh?

Also, this little gem:


This is blatantly wrong on all possible levels:
- OpenGL has always been "relegated" to "video-card driver supplied interface" regardless of the OS.
- Vista is the first Microsoft OS to natively support hardware-accelerated OpenGL without installing OpenGL drivers
- you can use OpenGL on Aero just fine

Got any better links?

Do you know what Fahrenheit was, who was involved in it, and why it most definitely is related to OpenGL? You obviously didn't read much.
That information about Vista is now a little outdated - microsoft changed their stance as result of a good deal of pressure about the matter.
I suggest you go do a bit more reading about why OpenGL needs special ICDs, but direct3d does not.

[BlackStar]

Do you know what Fahrenheit was, who was involved in it, and why it most definitely is related to OpenGL? You obviously didn't read much.

It was an ill-designed graphics API resulting from a joint effort between SGI and Microsoft. SGI was already imploding well before Microsoft abandoned the project.

That information about Vista is now a little outdated - microsoft changed their stance as result of a good deal of pressure about the matter.

There's no indication on a change of stance. Unless you count misinformed blog posts as "evidence".

To wit, I was able use OpenGL on Vista betas as soon as Ati released their drivers. It worked as it always had.

I suggest you go do a bit more reading about why OpenGL needs special ICDs, but direct3d does not.

Of course you need special ICDs for D3D, ever heard of the DDI interface for D3D drivers? Where do you get this stuff from, anyway?