Direct3D 10/11 Is Now Natively Implemented On Linux!

[Svartalf]

Also stuff like crappy windows only specialist applications (Eg Government stuff where everything has to be tracked and audited [been spending a lot of time at the JSA offices]) using crappy windows only backends!

That's the main reason Windows is still entrenched along with a few other non "specialist" examples thereof. Tax software is a good example of stuff not fully up with the times (YOU try doing the taxes for a business, a horse farm, and a household with that web stuff... :P It's a sore subject, but one of the only reasons I've got an XP install on a VirtualBox session- there is no credible Tax preparation solution- I'd love to have something better there...)

[Svartalf]

(YOU try doing the taxes for a business, a horse farm, and a household with that web stuff... :P It's a sore subject, but one of the only reasons I've got an XP install on a VirtualBox session- there is no credible Tax preparation solution- I'd love to have something better there...)

And before anyone comments, YES, I know I said it's counter-productive and all. I still hold that it is- and if it weren't next to impossible to do the taxes any other way, I'd do without it because it IS a vote for more Windows software. But, much like trying to get a powerful high-end laptop with Linux is impossible, I'm kind of trapped on that score.

[yotambien]

[...]

Right now, Windows is in place because of Microsoft's past business relationships, good marketing in spite of oftentimes poor quality products, ignorance, and inertia. In regards to remarks that gaming is what is keeping Windows in place...heh... How is it that 1-5% of the total marketspace is what's keeping Windows entrenched in place.

It is proper to say that, for some, Gaming is what is keeping a Windows install around or causing hesitation to dive in where Linux is concerned. It is NOT proper to say that Gaming is the cause of it all or that the lack of D3D support is the cause for no Linux gaming. One is supportable. The other is not.

There probably should be some positive reasons to add to the first paragraph to explain Microsoft's market dominance, but yes, nowadays consumer inertia probably isn't too far off. The second paragraph quoted is pure logic, people, just think for a moment that what applies to you or the few people you know doesn't apply to the whole world. And look around, for god's sake; computers are literally everywhere performing an infinite number of tasks, quite often accompanied by an individual who operates them in exchange of a salary. It's ridiculous to think that, of all things, computer gaming is the most important activity computers are used for. Because that's the assumption you make if you think it's games what keep Windows dominance over the alternatives.

If you want to debate this, by all means, bring it on. Do keep in mind, though, I don't operate off of feelings when it comes to these sorts of things- you'd best have some facts to back your suppositions.

Excellent! I don't do them feelings either. I have some problems with this paragraph of yours:

It's a mindshare issue where the studios have been led to believe that we don't even rate 1% of the marketspace. Even MS doesn't believe that line, mind- they think it's 11-12% at this time according to stuff that got leaked out and confirmed BY MS of late. According to them, we have more total market share than Apple does right now.

I'd like to know where I could find the sources for this. It must've escaped my radar.

[korpenkraxar]

Can we please get this thread back on topic and take the epic troll battles elsewhere for a while? I think the topic is very interesting and would love to see feedback from people actually able to do something with the code.

[Xanbreon]

That's the main reason Windows is still entrenched along with a few other non "specialist" examples thereof. Tax software is a good example of stuff not fully up with the times (YOU try doing the taxes for a business, a horse farm, and a household with that web stuff... :P It's a sore subject, but one of the only reasons I've got an XP install on a VirtualBox session- there is no credible Tax preparation solution- I'd love to have something better there...)

I keep a windowsXP vm around for stuff that doesnt need fast grathics, and i cant find something equivalent for linux and i cant be arsed to make work in WINE.

At the moment, all its used for it running random junk.

Everytime I go back to Windows I hate how it chugs at times on hardware where linux flys! (Its not like my stuff is old, [email protected], 8gig DDR2@800mhz, 80gig velociraptor, 2*500gig for data, and a GTX260core BE).

I also spent yesterday getting a Vista box upto SP2 from SP0, it was a slowish laptop with a very slow HDD, took about 4h to run the 102meg thing from MS to fix windows update, then about 2h for each of the service packs, if it had been linux, I would have just had to sudo aptitude update (or equiv) and if something wasnt working, pull down a package manually and install it, 1-2h max if it was really out of date.

Package management is a killer feature for linux, why go searching for stuff for windows when pretty much everything you need is a click (or line of text in a terminal) away! And you dont have to have 5+ random update services slowing the machine down to keep it all upto date

[Svartalf]

I'd like to know where I could find the sources for this. It must've escaped my radar.

http://blogs.eweek.com/applewatch/content/macbook/microsoft_ceo_scoffs_at_mac_share_gains.html

http://www.osnews.com/story/21035/Ballmer_Linux_Bigger_Competitor_than_Apple

[url]

While it's not conclusive, it jives with what other documents have indicated- Microsoft would very probably have real numbers. And if it weren't close to that, then the stuff going on in the background within the industry wouldn't be happening either.

[nanonyme]

I suspect that the main sector of people still using Windows Linux has the potential to target is the same sector Microsoft is trying to win: people using unlicensed Windows. That group of people is massive.

[yotambien]

http://blogs.eweek.com/applewatch/co...are_gains.html

http://www.osnews.com/story/21035/Ballmer_Linux_Bigger_Competitor_than_Apple

[url]

While it's not conclusive, it jives with what other documents have indicated- Microsoft would very probably have real numbers. And if it weren't close to that, then the stuff going on in the background within the industry wouldn't be happening either.

What does "jive with" mean? The dictionary doesn't help me much, it seems to mean the opposite I think you're saying. For the record, you used the same expression in another thread talking about the same issue and I didn't reply for I wasn't sure what your position was.

In any case, I don't think that's very solid. A power point slide shown in that particular event does not necessarily reflect the figures Microsoft intelligentsia deals with. The big problem is that we don't know anything about these data, so it's as valid as anything else out there. Of course, if their Linux figures were something like 0.05% we'd promptly hear from an army of bloggers how treacherous and unreliable Microsoft is. Let's be cold blooded here: can we really trust these numbers? Could Microsoft have an interest to distort them?

Not sure what you mean by the background movements in the industry, though.

[baryluk]

As i understand the main reason of this implementation is actualy virtualization (it is done by vmware): run direct 3d apps in virtualized/emulated windows, on top of vmware/qemu/kvm/xen/whetever. Other reason as i see is to remove duplication of code of the windows part: one part is translation D3D-OpenGL in Wine, and second would be in gallium anyway (becuase of reason no 1), so why two implementation if first D3D-OpenGL is very hard and always will be imperfect and possibly slower than this in gallium. Then considering that gallium in few years will be main 3D stack on Linux and posibly few other Unixes, then it is better to not do D3D-OpenGL-TGSI (first in Wine, second in gallium), but directly do D3D-TGSI in gallium. This also means that gallium could be used on the Windows nicely (for sure in software renering mode, not sure if with native hardware).

These are technical reasos.

Political reasons, of course, are different. Still developing in OpenGL 3+ or ES would probably be better and simpler, as it is more "native" for gallium, and better integrated with all parts. Also most of hardware drivers authors will not do or test at all D3D path at all, becuasue dont care. They will only provide support for OpenGL, these mean that there will be probably no hardware support for D3D in gallium soon, and even if there will be it wouldn't be very good. This means that game developers will still should develop in OpenGL, considering especially portabilitity to other platforms than this on gallium - *BSD, Solaris, Haiku, MacOSX, etc. etc. OpenGL is just MUCH more portable (hey, it even runs in web browesers), and developed by many independent entities, this means, that it can be improved in many ways, by meany pepople in open way (both model, extensions, and implementations). This is much more different than D3D design process: Microsoft works in secret with few hardware vendors, and they make decisions. In long run OpenGL should run. Of course main problem now is immaturity and mess of 3D stack on Linux (yes, it is clarifiny), but hardware vendors do not provide enaugh man-power to develop better drivers, or full OpenGL 3.1 and 4.0 support in open drivers.

How long we will wait for GL 4.0 in gallium, even for modern radeon based cards?

[oneman]

If you drink three Ma?, you will likely become a duma?