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Direct3D 10/11 Is Now Natively Implemented On Linux!

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  • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
    They see what they think is the quick and easy path. They've not watched the whole story pan out over decades of time. I have. I was where they were at one point in time- but then I saw that what I had wanted and they now want is actually counter productive.
    You've been around longer than I have, and have far more insider knowledge.

    But I also remember the Utah-GLX drivers 10 years ago, and the hope that WINE would bring complete transparency in terms of running Windows apps "any day now". The battles are exactly the same now as they were back then. People thought that as soon as they could run Internet Explorer through WINE, Linux would conquer the desktop overnight.

    I still don't think that it is the complexity or user-unfriendliness that is keeping Linux a minority on the desktop. It can be very annoying at certain times, but it was technologically ready 10 years ago already. It's not a D3D state tracker it's been missing all these years, it's mindshare, top apps, shelf space, business deployments, open standards, portable software. Exactly the same things as 10 years ago.

    And to see a new generation of users hailing some proprietary monopolist API as the solution to the problem is rather bewildering. Luckily, the Linux developers are not that silly

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    • Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
      Lol, *you* try harder: http://uk.pc.ign.com/index/games.html

      How many of those support OpenGL? Yeah.
      I counted 11 from the few that I've heard of.

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      • fyi,
        http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/01/Why-...nd-not-DirectX
        http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/08/OpenGL-update

        Comment


        • Originally posted by RealNC View Post
          Because D3D is easier to use than OpenGL?
          Have you used it? Have you used OpenGL? If you've not done both, please don't make the comparisons.

          It's different- and some things might be "easier" on D3D to do, and others not so. Professional experience (I've done work porting things from D3D to OpenGL as well as driver development work for OpenGL on several occasions...) tells me that if someone makes the remark that it's "easier", typically has been inured in the "Microsoft Way" where things like COM (you use D3D through a COM-like interface...) which actually complicates a few things more than the C-like interface that OpenGL presents.

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          • Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
            No, fuck no, no fucking way and then some.

            This is easily the silliest thing ever written on Phoronix.
            Actually, he's right. There are a lot of us that only keep a Windows partition around for games. Everything else, we can do in Linux.

            Originally posted by pingufunkybeat
            Windows lives because it is entrenched in the businesses, governments and all sorts of specialised software (NOT games!) exists only for Windows. Software needed to do business transactions (MS Office) or filing your taxes electronically.
            You're high. OpenOffice works fine, and I did my taxes from my PS3 under Linux. You know you can do that via secure web sites from any browser, just like every other business transaction, right?

            Windows is where it is because its practically impossible to buy a PC without it, and the PHBs believe the MS FUD. Also, it was dirt cheap and the only readily supportable option about the time businesses started moving away from mainframe/minicomputers and dumb terminals. That's no longer the case, and is why you see governments moving more and more to Linux.

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            • Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
              You've been around longer than I have, and have far more insider knowledge.


              But I also remember the Utah-GLX drivers 10 years ago, and the hope that WINE would bring complete transparency in terms of running Windows apps "any day now". The battles are exactly the same now as they were back then. People thought that as soon as they could run Internet Explorer through WINE, Linux would conquer the desktop overnight.
              There IS a reason that I made the remarks I did. :-)

              I was part of the crowd that DID Utah-GLX. I didn't see WINE as that answer- mainly because I saw what'd happened to OS/2 when they'd accomplished their compatibility with Windows 3.11 as well as they did. Nobody made applications for OS/2, with the stated reason of "Why bother? The Windows version works fine in it already.".

              I still don't think that it is the complexity or user-unfriendliness that is keeping Linux a minority on the desktop. It can be very annoying at certain times, but it was technologically ready 10 years ago already. It's not a D3D state tracker it's been missing all these years, it's mindshare, top apps, shelf space, business deployments, open standards, portable software. Exactly the same things as 10 years ago.
              And it's why I question the wisdom of people stating that D3D is "better". It's not used because it's "better". It's used because it's "the way to do things on Windows". And, because "Windows is everywhere" (Which I question- if you use Microsoft's figures, you're not seeing the truth in the slightest. They lay claim to at least four of the computers in my house right now- of which, only really one of the computers has Windows ever really running on it and under VirtualBox right at the moment. If those four are outright lies when told to people, what else are they fibbing about because they're simply claiming sold systems, not in use- mainly because they have few accurate figures (funny that, much like Linux, eh?) on actually running systems at this point.

              And to see a new generation of users hailing some proprietary monopolist API as the solution to the problem is rather bewildering. Luckily, the Linux developers are not that silly
              No kidding. I've been there, done that- question what they're thinking and go on, really.

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              • I said earlier that this might have been interesting to wine. Apparently I was incorrect about that, according to here.

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                • Originally posted by 3vi1 View Post
                  Actually, he's right. There are a lot of us that only keep a Windows partition around for games. Everything else, we can do in Linux.
                  Ever given thought to how counter-productive that actually is?

                  Each and every time you buy a Windows title, you place a vote for making MORE Windows games.

                  You're high.
                  Please skip the name calling. It's not productive and doesn't even remotely improve your arguments (in many cases it weakens your position- if you have to resort to ad-hominem, you're typically arguing from a weak position...).

                  OpenOffice works fine, and I did my taxes from my PS3 under Linux. You know you can do that via secure web sites from any browser, just like every other business transaction, right?
                  Yep. The thing is...it's not because Windows is a superior gaming platform or that D3D is "better" that all the games are done for Windows. It's not. It's a mindshare issue where the studios have been led to believe that we don't even rate 1% of the marketspace. Even MS doesn't believe that line, mind- they think it's 11-12% at this time according to stuff that got leaked out and confirmed BY MS of late. According to them, we have more total market share than Apple does right now. But we keep running Windows stuff and not buying Linux stuff when it's offered. We keep reaching for WINE and dual booting. What do you think that tells studios?

                  And, if you stop and think about it, all you just did, in spite of an ad-hominem attack there, was largely support his own claims. It kind of IS one of the more silly things I've seen posted here in these forums (and there's a few silly things on both sides of that story I've seen put up here... )

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                  • Originally posted by mirv View Post
                    I said earlier that this might have been interesting to wine. Apparently I was incorrect about that, according to here.
                    That's more because there's been little thought into how one could make it that way- it's very doable, but they've got a "just-so" thinking going on within WINE (Nothing wrong with it, but...) that they're unwilling to put effort into thinking about how one could do it the right way.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by 3vi1 View Post
                      Actually, he's right. There are a lot of us that only keep a Windows partition around for games. Everything else, we can do in Linux.
                      A lot of Linux users only use Windows for gaming. Yes.

                      This is a VERY different statement from "Games are the no 1 reason Windows dominate."

                      If you think that the tens of thousands of PCs in every major corporation run Windows because they have to play Fallout 3 and that they will switch as soon as WINE catches up, you are really smoking some heavy shit.

                      When I was working for Siemens, Windows NT was mandated and that was what you had to use. And it was not because you get more FPS.

                      THIS is the Windows domination. Gaming is a (relatively) minor issue. Most of the gaming money has always been in consoles anyway.

                      You're high. OpenOffice works fine
                      It works fine, but it has lots of issues whenever formatting is complex. I've worked as a translator, I have yet to see a perfectly converted complex file.

                      I do respect the work OpenOffice.org is doing to break the MS Office monopoly, but it's not that easy. It's great if you use it exclusively, but unfortunately, it is not (and will probably never be) a 100% MS Office replacement.

                      Just imagine -- you're at a scientific conference, and somebody shows up with a .ppt and you only offer OpenOffice Impress. It won't work.

                      I did my taxes from my PS3 under Linux. You know you can do that via secure web sites from any browser, just like every other business transaction, right?
                      In Germany? Do tell....

                      I know people who do it in WINE, but some people still have a Windows partition exactly for this purpose.

                      Windows is where it is because its practically impossible to buy a PC without it, and the PHBs believe the MS FUD. Also, it was dirt cheap and the only readily supportable option about the time businesses started moving away from mainframe/minicomputers and dumb terminals.
                      These are all very important reasons, I agree.

                      That's no longer the case, and is why you see governments moving more and more to Linux.
                      They are moving to Linux partly because they want to break the monopoly themselves and do not want to depend on a foreign corporation.

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