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Open-Source GPU Drivers Causing Headaches In KDE 4.5

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  • #51
    Originally posted by airlied View Post
    Thing is if you want to create a desktop that runs on Linux, you need to invest something. Why don't the kwin guys get a community team of testers together and have the testers provide feedback before deploying to the greater community? Surely KDE has enough users to set something like that up?
    If there are communication issues, I'm sure that it's not out of malice. Have you contacted the KWin developers about it, and asked for useful bug reports?

    AFAIK, most of KWin was written by a couple of guys.

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    • #52
      Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post
      I am not talking about peripheral apps here, i am talking about the core KDE project. This is made by Trolltech employees, not independent developers. Try contributing to core KDE and you will soon find out what is happening...
      Bullshit.

      Qt is mostly made by Trolltech. Most of KDE isn't, I don't think that are more than a handful of Trolltech coders doing anything KDE-related.

      Who gave you these strange ideas? KDE was a community project from the beginning, and it has only become increasingly democratic with time. And its mission has always been clear, since the first day.

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      • #53
        Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
        Bullshit.

        Qt is mostly made by Trolltech. Most of KDE isn't, I don't think that are more than a handful of Trolltech coders doing anything KDE-related.

        Who gave you these strange ideas? KDE was a community project from the beginning, and it has only become increasingly democratic with time. And its mission has always been clear, since the first day.
        Don't agree with you many times but your dead on here.

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        • #54
          Originally posted by MaestroMaus View Post
          law: "Performance of computers is increased by 100% each three years"

          Look it up, it has applied since the very beginning up until now. I remember people thinking the same in the P4 days.
          Law nanotechnology is hard. The beggining was hard 90nm, The middle was really hard 65nm, The lower half of the technology 40nm and below is really really getting hard to pull off.

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          • #55
            Originally posted by Hephasteus View Post
            Law nanotechnology is hard. The beggining was hard 90nm, The middle was really hard 65nm, The lower half of the technology 40nm and below is really really getting hard to pull off.
            Well they pretty much have 20/22 nm ready to take off now but ya eventually it will taper off with the current limitations of IC design.

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            • #56
              11nm will be tough, and after that they don't seem to really know where they're going. That's about where the problem shifts from "we don't know how to build this" to "even if we could build this, the laws of physics pretty much guarantee that it will be useless".

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              • #57
                Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                I don't understand the comment about "KDE developers being cautious enough" -- the fact that "OpenGL 3.0 is a few years old" (actually 2 years) doesn't mean much if most of the target hardware/driver platforms only picked up OpenGL 2.x support very recently and anything past GL 1.5 is still a bit of a work in process.

                ...etc
                It seem to me, it is a problem crapy drivers, claiming functionality they do not support. It is not KDE developers fault, if driver provide wrong information.

                http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blo...orkspaces-4-5/

                Originally posted by Martin-Grasellin
                First let?s have a look on the checks KWin performs in desktop effects:

                * Desktop effects are only enabled if the driver is on a whitelist of known working drivers
                * The capabilities of the driver are verified by an external helper application

                * If KWin crashes while initializing the driver (you have to access OpenGL to know if OpenGL is supported), KWin will not try to enable desktop effects again

                * If KWin crashes twice in a row (not during driver initialization), desktop effects get disabled to prevent further crashes

                * Each effect verifies the required capabilities by testing against the supported OpenGL extensions. So for example the blur effect requires GLSL with fragment shaders and frambebuffer objects. Only if the driver supports these extensions the effect gets activated. If a driver does not support the extension it should not claim support for it. The extensions are the only reliable information we have from the graphics driver.

                * We have a test in 4.5.0 (removed in 4.5.1 ? reason given below) that ensures that framebuffer objects are working in case the driver claims incorrectly support for the extension

                * We have a dynamic blacklist that disables effects which require an extension the driver claims incorrectly support for it
                KWin has a selfcheck to test if desktop effects work at all, if not they are disabled

                * KWin has a runtime performance check. If the performance is bad, desktop effects are disabled on the fly
                The most important fact in this list is, that KWin does not enable any functionality the driver does not claim support for it!

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                • #58
                  Ya, but they pretty much have said that with every reduction. Somehow they always find a way. Alternatively there are new methods of computing being developed that will make manufacturing process sizes less important.

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                  • #59
                    next9>

                    Blacklisting a driver doesn't help anybody. Reporting a bug does. Moreover, blacklisting makes the impression they only care about proprietary drivers. And now they are unhappy. They got what they wanted.

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                    • #60
                      Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                      Ya, but they pretty much have said that with every reduction.
                      Not really. The ITRS 2000 edition predicted device sizes like we have today, and the main uncertainty was how long it would take to get there. The current edition (2009) is talking about the need for technologies "beyond CMOS".

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