Autodesk Contributes Mesa Vulkan WSI Support For Apple's Metal

[phoronix]

Phoronix: Autodesk Contributes Mesa Vulkan WSI Support For Apple's Metal

An interesting merge request opened this week and already merged for Mesa 24.3 comes from an Autodesk engineer adding Vulkan Windowing System Integration (WSI) around Apple's Metal API for use on macOS...

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Autodesk-Mesa-WSI-Metal

[zexelon]

Come on Autodesk... give us something really good like Inventor or Revit with Linux support... okay Revit sucks but sadly its here to say, so yeah... give us Inventor and Revit on Linux!

That rant said, its awesome to see AD doing anything like this!

[AlDunsmuir]

Typo: texutre should be texture.

[ahrs]

That rant said, its awesome to see AD doing anything like this!

It's always nice when proprietary software companies take interest in free standards like Vulkan. It reminds us that although proprietary software is bad it's not always black and white, there are shades of grey in-between. Only with companies like Autodesk pushing for Vulkan use will Apple consider reversing course on Metal. It's nice that Mesa can be used with lavapipe like this or MoltenVK to bridge Metal but really macOS customers deserve nothing less than a proper Vulkan driver worked on by Apple engineers and I say this as a Linux user that has no interest in Macs anymore.

[hajj_3]

I think autodesk uses opengl for their windows and macos programs. It looks like they are wanting to upgrade to Vulkan. I highly doubt they will be releasing linux versions of their software.

[Space Beer]

I think they swithced most of them to DirectX long time ago, but some still are on OpenGL

[starbg]

It's always nice when proprietary software companies take interest in free standards like Vulkan. It reminds us that although proprietary software is bad it's not always black and white, there are shades of grey in-between. Only with companies like Autodesk pushing for Vulkan use will Apple consider reversing course on Metal. It's nice that Mesa can be used with lavapipe like this or MoltenVK to bridge Metal but really macOS customers deserve nothing less than a proper Vulkan driver worked on by Apple engineers and I say this as a Linux user that has no interest in Macs anymore.

However, in fact, these 3D software are often the earliest to use OpenGL, even before its Windows version provides Direct3D back-end. The reason is that these ISVs can require GPU IHV to manufacture drivers that meet their certification. As a result, these GPU IHVs can sell professional GPUs that are exactly the same as their consumer-grade hardware but the price is doubled, while ISVs that manufacture 3D software can receive certification fees. And all this is because OpenGL is a formally open and neutral API standard, but it doesn't have CTS (At least in those years, OpenGL CTS needed NDA, and OpenGL CTS was not open sourced by Khronos until the end of its life.), which comes from GPU IHV's proprietary extensions and lack of core API sets.

Direct3D has never had such a problem, at most it is driver bugs. At least IHV can only require the software to use its proprietary independent api to access its innovative functions that Windows does not have, such as DLSS.

[Samara]

However, in fact, these 3D software are often the earliest to use OpenGL, even before its Windows version provides Direct3D back-end. The reason is that these ISVs can require GPU IHV to manufacture drivers that meet their certification. As a result, these GPU IHVs can sell professional GPUs that are exactly the same as their consumer-grade hardware but the price is doubled, while ISVs that manufacture 3D software can receive certification fees. And all this is because OpenGL is a formally open and neutral API standard, but it doesn't have CTS (At least in those years, OpenGL CTS needed NDA, and OpenGL CTS was not open sourced by Khronos until the end of its life.), which comes from GPU IHV's proprietary extensions and lack of core API sets.

Direct3D has never had such a problem, at most it is driver bugs. At least IHV can only require the software to use its proprietary independent api to access its innovative functions that Windows does not have, such as DLSS.

Except that AMD, Nvidia and Intel are members of Khronos, so they don't pay for OpenGL CTS.
As you can see in the Autodesk "Maya 2016 Extension 2 Certified Graphics Hardware – April 2016" (before OpenGL CTS was open sourced by Khronos), AMD, Nvidia and Intel consumer-grade graphic hardware are certified under both DirectX 11 and OpenGL 4.x Core Profile. Even the Intel HD 4400 is certified! And no other vendor than those three is certified.
Same thing for the Autodesk "Maya and Maya Creative 2025, MtoA 5.x MotionBuilder & Mudbox 2025" certified hardware, except there's also a few Linux certified hardware.

An obvious difference between professional and consumer-grade GPUs is ECC. Of course, that's an artificial differentiation, but it's there nonetheless.
And for some reason, Autocad tends to crash on non certified hardware. Since Autocad isn't available on Linux, I can't say if it's just the drivers that make it crash.

[Espionage724]

It's always nice when proprietary software companies take interest in free standards like Vulkan. It reminds us that although proprietary software is bad it's not always black and white, there are shades of grey in-between. Only with companies like Autodesk pushing for Vulkan use will Apple consider reversing course on Metal. It's nice that Mesa can be used with lavapipe like this or MoltenVK to bridge Metal but really macOS customers deserve nothing less than a proper Vulkan driver worked on by Apple engineers and I say this as a Linux user that has no interest in Macs anymore.

I expect this to backfire at some point for a major entity to where they'll turn-back to proprietary software (didn't that already happen with some town/government?)

Proprietary software isn't "bad". It's an option. FOSS is an option. People can dev/work on both, but FOSS happens to be more-community appealing, and sounds pretty good on-paper

I'm typing this from a FOSS OS, DE, and browser, while my keyboard, mouse, display, probably dozens of chips in my computer itself, and drivers on my wifi router are all proprietary, and functioning.

And just to stress the point: With a NETGEAR R6260 router, mt76 open-source firmware is crap with 5GHz wifi speeds, whereas proprietary mtk is great (actual AC speeds)! Router released 2018, and that's still the case late-2024. I solve that by having a AX router with proprietary wifi drivers as the wireless AP, while OpenWRT on the R6260 is great for being more up-to-date than stock firmware and more-secure! (wireless AX is in bridge/dumb mode, connected to the OpenWRT R6260 (wifi disabled) that handles DHCP/firewall/etc)

[Samara]

I expect this to backfire at some point for a major entity to where they'll turn-back to proprietary software (didn't that already happen with some town/government?)

Proprietary software isn't "bad". It's an option. FOSS is an option. People can dev/work on both, but FOSS happens to be more-community appealing, and sounds pretty good on-paper

I'm typing this from a FOSS OS, DE, and browser, while my keyboard, mouse, display, probably dozens of chips in my computer itself, and drivers on my wifi router are all proprietary, and functioning.

And just to stress the point: With a NETGEAR R6260 router, mt76 open-source firmware is crap with 5GHz wifi speeds, whereas proprietary mtk is great (actual AC speeds)! Router released 2018, and that's still the case late-2024. I solve that by having a AX router with proprietary wifi drivers as the wireless AP, while OpenWRT on the R6260 is great for being more up-to-date than stock firmware and more-secure! (wireless AX is in bridge/dumb mode, connected to the OpenWRT R6260 (wifi disabled) that handles DHCP/firewall/etc)

One advantage of FOSS is that support (for drivers or software updates) doesn't end when the manufacturer decides so, so we can keep using our product.
We just have to find hardware for which either the manufacturer provides FOSS drivers or for which the community has made good FOSS drivers.