The Significant Corporate Importance & Pressure Around Mesa Open-Source Linux 3D Drivers

[d3coder]

Thats not how the real world works

In the real world they just release new mac os that can't work with JVM. And It's client application problem, not OS side problem.
Why mesa should be any different?

[GreatLord]

SPECViewPerf did worng thing using outdate version of zlib, allot of distro will have issue update to lates zlib version if the distro want to run SPECViewPerf, so it is not only a mesa issue. One way to solv the issue is to make sure correct version of zlib is in SPECViewPerf binary folder ( bad way to do it, but accpected way I think ) then mesa and distro still using newer version of zlib without issue.

[sdack]

Love Marek's comment, and love the entertainment. Thank you for sharing.

[schmidtbag]

What is it about the new zlib that is so incompatible with the old one? There have been plenty of times I used a program that depended on an older library than the one shipped with my distro, but I created a symlink of the new one and it worked just fine. If a new version of zlib is really so different that it breaks functionality then shouldn't support for the outgoing and current version be maintained concurrently?

[anda_skoa]

it takes about 5 years to get a bachelors degree in computer science from a good state college and it can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and a person like that isn't going to sit and write code for free.

You got confused by how the word "free" is being used in different contexts.

Don't worry, many other people who were, like you, new to the concept of FOSS fell into that misunderstanding.

The word "free" in this context means that the recipient of the software is free (to a certain degree) to do with the software what they want.
it does neither mean that the software came without cost or that the developers creating it were not paid to do so.

Given that you are posting on a site about Linux topics you are probably aware of the Linux kernel.
It is FOSS and its principle engineer Linus Torvalds is paid quite handsomely to develop it.

Another good way of getting one's head around this is to consider an in-house software which is later released as FOSS.
In this case the employees who created it were paid their salaries and continue to be paid the same salaries after the release.

The release has simply expanded the people who get access to the software (first company internal, then beyond that) and releases as FOSS expanded what these people can do with the software once they have it.

There have been many attempts at replacing the word with something less ambiguous but few of them have gained traction.
it is also often less ambiguous in other languages.

[Tomin]

What is it about the new zlib that is so incompatible with the old one? There have been plenty of times I used a program that depended on an older library than the one shipped with my distro, but I created a symlink of the new one and it worked just fine. If a new version of zlib is really so different that it breaks functionality then shouldn't support for the outgoing and current version be maintained concurrently?

There is a new function in the new version and Mesa wanted to use that. They reverted that change. Obviously, if it were fully compatible no one would have noticed, but then Mesa also need not to bump the requirement.

The issue is not that Viewperf wouldn't have worked with the newer version of the library, that would have been fine, but that Mesa wouldn't have worked with the older version and Viewperf essentially forced Mesa to also use the older version.

[schmidtbag]

There is a new function in the new version and Mesa wanted to use that. They reverted that change. Obviously, if it were fully compatible no one would have noticed, but then Mesa also need not to bump the requirement.

The issue is not that Viewperf wouldn't have worked with the newer version of the library, that would have been fine, but that Mesa wouldn't have worked with the older version and Viewperf essentially forced Mesa to also use the older version.

Well, I wouldn't really say that answers my question, because since it's a new function with a different string, what's preventing both functions from working? Or is the old one fundamentally broken? I guess I just don't get what's preventing Mesa from reverting to the old one if the new one isn't available?

[rmfx]

They make up almost 100% because legacy. They're on top because they're on top and being on top they stay on top using shady practices. Microsoft is even building adware right into Windows itself because they've learned from Google that people will put up with data theft.

If we were all to somehow start off at the very beginning, all things being equal, Windows wouldn't get nearly what it currently has. Apple at least is able to create a cult like atmosphere and people would choose it for those reasons.

I agree so much.
The only reason microsoft is number one is because Walmart only sell it PCs with Windows installed by default on them. If there was a law where linux/windows should be a consumer choice, situation would evolve. It’s already changing in Russia, India and China…

[jabl]

Well, I wouldn't really say that answers my question, because since it's a new function with a different string, what's preventing both functions from working? Or is the old one fundamentally broken? I guess I just don't get what's preventing Mesa from reverting to the old one if the new one isn't available?

Because if the dynamic library loader loads the old library (in this case the one bundled with SPECViewPerf) the new function doesn't exist, hence stuff breaks when Mesa unconditionally tries to use the new function.

[mdedetrich]

Well, I wouldn't really say that answers my question, because since it's a new function with a different string, what's preventing both functions from working? Or is the old one fundamentally broken? I guess I just don't get what's preventing Mesa from reverting to the old one if the new one isn't available?

zlib isn't both backwards and forwards compatible as this would literally mean not adding any new functions. Given this, software using zlib should not use any new functions that are added after a minimum supported version and thats precisely what mesa did. Mesa cannot control what version of zlib is loaded.

This is standard when it comes to writing software that follows semver, I also have to do the same. If you say you support 1.0.x of some semver library, you cannot use any new functions that may have been added after that 1.0.x because it doesn't exist in 1.0.x (which means it will break). There are some tricks around this, but mesa did not do that.