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  • #21
    Originally posted by coder View Post
    But you have to admit that you were wrong about it working only with Intel CPUs.
    right. but still intel did make it sound like it works better with intel cpu... because of the “Resizable BAR”​ support..
    but “Resizable BAR”​ also works with amd systems...

    on the other side right now i know no one who is happy with intel ARC... not even people who do not game at all and who only want desktop support with av1 decode... it is not even clear if av1 decode works in firefox.

    so right now intel arc is the strangest product happened in years.

    who buys this? developers and testers like [email protected] ... the rest thinks it is stranger than fiction...

    my mothers PC has a old HD4770 with only 2K resolution support but her monitor has 4K support she makes nothing demanding with the system writing office letters and watching youtube sometimes... for my mother this card would a good upgrade to get the 4K resolution...
    but intel is only the best option because intel has the lowest price. LOL
    Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

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    • #22
      Originally posted by qarium View Post
      on the other side right now i know no one who is happy with intel ARC... not even people who do not game at all and who only want desktop support with av1 decode... it is not even clear if av1 decode works in firefox.

      so right now intel arc is the strangest product happened in years.

      who buys this? developers and testers like [email protected] ... the rest thinks it is stranger than fiction...
      Those who need:
      • Lower price
      • More memory
      • 4x display outputs (1x HDMI 2.0b + 3x DisplayPort 2.0)
      • At least a future promise of AV1 (in my case, I don't use AV1 today, but I'd want any GPU I buy to support it eventually)

      If you don't care about gaming or visualization performance, then it's not without its selling points. So, office workers with machines lacking an iGPU or who need 4-monitor setups or 8k support.
      Last edited by coder; 09 September 2022, 10:10 PM.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by qarium View Post

        right. but still intel did make it sound like it works better with intel cpu... because of the “Resizable BAR”​ support..
        but “Resizable BAR”​ also works with amd systems...
        That's cause AMD was first with BAR support and then Intel copied them.
        on the other side right now i know no one who is happy with intel ARC... not even people who do not game at all and who only want desktop support with av1 decode... it is not even clear if av1 decode works in firefox.
        The main reason to go Intel ARC is for AV1 support which Apple doesn't support. AMD kinda sorta does, but I'm not sure about it. Also, the A380 is the only ARC GPU for sale and I would never buy it since the GTX 1060 and RX 580 are cheaper and faster.
        who buys this? developers and testers like [email protected] ... the rest thinks it is stranger than fiction...
        People like me who don't care about anything but price to performance, plus Intel ARC has working GPU drivers for Linux. I would not touch a A380 but eventually they'll release GPU's that are gonna be decent performers for a hopefully decent price. I'm not interested in RX 6900's or RTX 3080/3090's just due to price and power consumption. If Intel can get close to RTX 3070 or RX 6700/6800 levels of performance then I'll buy it. It'll probably consume more electricity and will be slower without BAR support but if the price is right then I don't care.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by coder View Post
          Those who need:
          • Lower price
          • More memory
          • 4x display outputs (1x HDMI 2.0b + 3x DisplayPort 2.0)
          • At least a future promise of AV1 (in my case, I don't use AV1 today, but I'd want any GPU I buy to support it eventually)

          If you don't care about gaming or visualization support, then it's not without its selling points. So, office workers with machines lacking an iGPU or who need 4-monitor setups or 8k support.
          the Intel Arc A380 has only 6gb vram..
          also if you have a lag of money you maybe want efficiency...
          MSI's Radeon RX 6950 XT Gaming X Trio is the fastest RX 6950 XT we tested today, making it the fastest Radeon we ever tested. It beats the NVIDIA RTX 3090 and almost matches the much more expensive RTX 3090 Ti, with very little noise and good temperatures.

          see the 6800 is the most efficient card and has 16gb vram.. 629€ right now in germany.

          i would not count more memory because if you really want more memory you go for the 6800 anyway.

          so yes "Lower price"
          Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

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          • #25
            Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
            That's cause AMD was first with BAR support and then Intel copied them.
            The main reason to go Intel ARC is for AV1 support which Apple doesn't support. AMD kinda sorta does, but I'm not sure about it. Also, the A380 is the only ARC GPU for sale and I would never buy it since the GTX 1060 and RX 580 are cheaper and faster.
            People like me who don't care about anything but price to performance, plus Intel ARC has working GPU drivers for Linux. I would not touch a A380 but eventually they'll release GPU's that are gonna be decent performers for a hopefully decent price. I'm not interested in RX 6900's or RTX 3080/3090's just due to price and power consumption. If Intel can get close to RTX 3070 or RX 6700/6800 levels of performance then I'll buy it. It'll probably consume more electricity and will be slower without BAR support but if the price is right then I don't care.
            you are in the group: who thinks it is stranger than fiction: "I would never buy it since the GTX 1060 and RX 580 are cheaper and faster."
            ok lets wait and see. maybe at their next release of their midrange and highend card the situation is maybe better for them.
            but i don't think so.

            why i think the next intel arc releases will be a desaster? its simple because of the massive price drop of amd and nvidia cards
            and also the 5nm 7000XT amd cards and RTX4000 cards...

            intel did want to sell their big one with 16gb vram at maybe 600€... but you already get the amd 6800 with 16gb vram at 629€...

            this means even if intel sells it for 500€ it will be a desaster and you better buy the amd card.

            the intel arc A380 hat the best case szenario in the market because amd 6400/6500 had no AV1 decode and encode...

            but intels midrange and highend card will compete agaist the amd 6600xt 6800 who do have a AV1 decode ,,,

            this also proofs better TSMC node 6nm does not garantee a win.. the highend intel card at 6nm will lose agaist the 6800 on 7nm..
            Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

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            • #26
              Originally posted by qarium View Post

              you are in the group: who thinks it is stranger than fiction: "I would never buy it since the GTX 1060 and RX 580 are cheaper and faster."
              ok lets wait and see. maybe at their next release of their midrange and highend card the situation is maybe better for them.
              but i don't think so.
              The A380 isn't a midrange or highend product. I'm interested in something faster than my Vega 56 without costing $300+.
              why i think the next intel arc releases will be a desaster? its simple because of the massive price drop of amd and nvidia cards
              and also the 5nm 7000XT amd cards and RTX4000 cards...
              Assuming a massive price drop. AMD and Nvidia aren't in the business to lower prices. In fact, that's why Steam shows Pascal cards as the Home Nvidia product, and Polaris cards as AMD's Home on Steam. The margins are low for low to mid range products, but high end products yield higher returns. In fact, Nvidia's CEO plans to manipulate the market. This is why you want competition. Direct competition. Technically there's PowerVR, Apple's GPU, and even Mali graphics, but they don't compete in the PC market.

              intel did want to sell their big one with 16gb vram at maybe 600€... but you already get the amd 6800 with 16gb vram at 629€...

              this means even if intel sells it for 500€ it will be a desaster and you better buy the amd card.
              I don't care if Intel wins or loses, as that's their problem. They want my money? Make a better cheaper product.
              the intel arc A380 hat the best case szenario in the market because amd 6400/6500 had no AV1 decode and encode...

              but intels midrange and highend card will compete agaist the amd 6600xt 6800 who do have a AV1 decode ,,,
              I don't know if there's value in AV1 just yet. For some people it maybe a deal breaker, but I feel this is more about Intel fighting Apple since Apple has a lot of video encoder and decoders on their silicon.
              this also proofs better TSMC node 6nm does not garantee a win.. the highend intel card at 6nm will lose agaist the 6800 on 7nm..
              Obviously manufacturing nodes are not the be all end all, but just one of many factors in making a good chip. The important thing is Intel is entering the PC market, which is an open market. Nobody controls the PC market, not Microsoft, not Intel, not AMD, and not Nvidia. They sure wish they could, and they often do try, but in the end an open platform is what people desire. It's not healthy to have an isolated market as that creates a type of monopoly. Like game consoles or video streaming services. As bad as Intel is, we need them. We want them to do better and break up the duopoly that is AMD and Nvidia.

              Back in the day we had many graphic chips makers. 3Dfx, S3, PowerVR, Rendition, Matrox, along with ATI and Nvidia. It was a healthy market, but due to people sticking with their favorite brand Nvidia, the market couldn't survive and most of them have either filed for bankruptcy or just left the market entirely. Consumers need to learn to embrace other brands or end up dealing with a polarized market where higher prices are inevitable.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by qarium View Post
                the Intel Arc A380 has only 6gb vram..
                Compared to the next cheapest cards, which have only 4 GB.

                Originally posted by qarium View Post
                see the 6800 is the most efficient card and has 16gb vram.. 629€ right now in germany.
                To someone who just needs a basic graphics card with 4 display outs, AV1, or 8k, that's about 500€ more than they need to spend.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
                  The A380 isn't a midrange or highend product. I'm interested in something faster than my Vega 56 without costing $300+.
                  you know this will not happen... it is only wishfull thinking. your vega56 is similar to my vega64 and a radeon 6600xt is 8% faster than my vega64 and already cost you 400€...
                  and just compare the price between intel arc 380 and amd 6400/6500 this will show you that the price difference is not that high the price difference is more like 20-30€...
                  even if intel sells their "6600xt" style card for like 350€ or lets say they make all your wishes a dream day 300€ then the product would not be able to compete with your vega56 it means the upgrade is not worth it.

                  dont believe it?... lol... you will see.

                  the price different between Nvidia 3090 and AMD 6950 is 200€ the price difference between a380 and 6400 is maybe 20€...
                  this alone shows you what you want will not happen.

                  Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
                  Assuming a massive price drop. AMD and Nvidia aren't in the business to lower prices. In fact, that's why Steam shows Pascal cards as the Home Nvidia product, and Polaris cards as AMD's Home on Steam. The margins are low for low to mid range products, but high end products yield higher returns. In fact, Nvidia's CEO plans to manipulate the market. This is why you want competition. Direct competition. Technically there's PowerVR, Apple's GPU, and even Mali graphics, but they don't compete in the PC market.
                  https://seekingalpha.com/article/453...all-transcript
                  well just inform yourself first and then write this ... there is a Chinese GPU company selling a GPU PCIe card for the PC with PowerVR IP with large vram and even vulkan support and so one. just google it. the only problem with that is the driver is not competive to AMD...


                  Apple GPU also compete in the PC market because you can buy Apple computer and run linux on it. but same problem because of the drivers are not ready they can not compete right now.

                  Mali graphics is ARM IP and it is in the rockchip-rk3588 and other products they also aim to compete in the PC market. but performance is so low that they can not compete.

                  "Assuming a massive price drop. AMD and Nvidia aren't in the business to lower prices."

                  you dont believe it but if you use websites like geizhals.at you can proof there was a massive price drop.
                  for example the AMD 6900XT card did go from 1630€ to 880€ from '2022 januar to 2022 september.
                  see here: https://geizhals.de/?phist=2586123&age=366

                  Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
                  I don't care if Intel wins or loses, as that's their problem. They want my money? Make a better cheaper product.
                  man i can tell you this is not how the silicon chip market works.

                  if your product like the inferior intel products is not polished to be attractive then their products will not have a relevant impact on the prices of amd or nvidia products. its like you can use a raspberry pi 4 for the desktop but the performance is not competive and because of this the amd and intel products will not go in price because of the pi4... same with Mali graphics in rockchip-rk3588 yes it is one of the best in ARM world but it will not have an impact on AMD or Intel systems.

                  if you want better and cheaper products you want intel arc to be a success but right now it is clear that it is not a success.

                  Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
                  I don't know if there's value in AV1 just yet. For some people it maybe a deal breaker, but I feel this is more about Intel fighting Apple since Apple has a lot of video encoder and decoders on their silicon.
                  if you have a linux like me without h264/265 and your youtube runs only on VP9 and AV1 then yes it has big impact.

                  man you are funny first you write apple does not compete in the pc market and now you write intel need to fight apple in the pc market.
                  "Technically there's PowerVR, Apple's GPU, and even Mali graphics, but they don't compete in the PC market."
                  "I feel this is more about Intel fighting Apple since Apple has a lot of video encoder and decoders on their silicon."
                  the reality is they do fight in the pc market but apple honestly is not ready yet.. but on the GPU side intel is not ready yet either...


                  Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
                  Obviously manufacturing nodes are not the be all end all, but just one of many factors in making a good chip.
                  right .. and business insider did discover that AMD did chancel the die shinks of the 6000 series to 6nm because they discovered intel is not competeive.
                  so do not expect any success of intels current arc gpu generation. they maybe will sell their highend variant with 16gb vram for like 500€ but you are adviced to not buy it because they can not compete right now.

                  imagine this you are google and you need 1000 of these cards in the server just to decode/encode h264/265 to VP9/AV1... but i am sure this is not a product for you right now.

                  Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post

                  The important thing is Intel is entering the PC market, which is an open market. Nobody controls the PC market, not Microsoft, not Intel, not AMD, and not Nvidia. They sure wish they could, and they often do try, but in the end an open platform is what people desire. It's not healthy to have an isolated market as that creates a type of monopoly. Like game consoles or video streaming services. As bad as Intel is, we need them. We want them to do better and break up the duopoly that is AMD and Nvidia.
                  i agree that game consoles like xbox and playstation are isolated walled garden markets...

                  but if you buy apple m1/m2 and you run linux then this is not an isolated walled garden market.

                  also apple m1/m2 if you want linux and nott windows the apple m1/m2 do in fact compete in an open market.

                  "As bad as Intel is, we need them. We want them to do better and break up the duopoly that is AMD and Nvidia"

                  i agree on this but right now... intel is a shit show.

                  Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post

                  Back in the day we had many graphic chips makers. 3Dfx, S3, PowerVR, Rendition, Matrox, along with ATI and Nvidia. It was a healthy market, but due to people sticking with their favorite brand Nvidia, the market couldn't survive and most of them have either filed for bankruptcy or just left the market entirely. Consumers need to learn to embrace other brands or end up dealing with a polarized market where higher prices are inevitable.
                  right... it is the evil Wintel-Nvidia cartell who did try to turn the open market into a monopole or duopole...

                  Microsoft was in the Khronos/OpenGL group just to sapotage openGL and nvidia did abuse its power to turn OpenGL into NvidiaGL..
                  for like ~30years microsoft did try to kill every competition to directX and Nvidia did try to dominate the open APIs like openGL.

                  thanks to AMD mandle technology what resulted into vulkan the market goes multipolar again with these chinese PowerVT gpus and Apple GPUs and ARM/Mali gpus and intel gpus and amd gpus...

                  i did not buy any nvidia product sience 2006... so i know if you feed this moster nvidia it will kill of the free market.

                  Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
                    I don't care if Intel wins or loses, as that's their problem. They want my money? Make a better cheaper product.
                    " Intel’s Xe Odyssey is Over: Discrete ARC is Effectively Cancelled"


                    looks like your dream of midrange and highend intel ARC is over.

                    their next generation intel arc gpu die battlemage Xe2 will only be low-end laptop chip with only 6-8gb vram
                    maybe faster than the a380 but nothing big.

                    and your upgrade from a vega56...

                    Based on 92,705 user benchmarks for the AMD RX Vega-56 and the Intel Arc A380, we rank them both on effective speed and value for money against the best 714 GPUs.


                    your vega56 is 147% faster than the intel arc a380...

                    and the next generation battlemage Xe2 will still be slower than your vega56,,.,

                    Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
                      The main reason to go Intel ARC is for AV1 support which Apple doesn't support. AMD kinda sorta does, but I'm not sure about it.
                      AMD's RX 6600 and higher GPUs support AV1 decode (no encode). The RX 6500 XT and RX 6400 do not.
                      The RX 7xxx GPUs will add AV1 encode but it remains to be seen if that will be across the entire family or if the low end cards only do decode.
                      All Zen 4 desktop CPUs will support at least AV1 decode in the tiny GPU on the IO chiplet.

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