Open-Source Raspberry Pi Graphics Drivers Add Double Buffer Mode

[DebianLinuxero]

Yeah, but its width is 32 bit. On x86 a single channel is 64 bit, and you get 128 bit in dual-channel mode.

I want to point that my first comparison is with 10 year x86 processors.
At that time, the most common memory type was DDR3.
So we are comparing DDR4 with DDR3. Now we are halving the bandwidth.

And even a cheap built machine, that ones that were populated with only one memory DIMM, were more capable to run smooth the GNOME desktop effects, the transitions, the scalar effects, and so on.

I think Igalia is doing a well job.
And think the hardware is capable of a rather normal desktop experience at 1080P, even at 2K.

My blame is more for Raspberry PI foundation.
You can't sell a device without proper support.

[coder]

How could it be that any aged, entry level, Intel or AMD processor (10 years) with integrated graphics, outperforms it in simple tasks like running GNOME or KDE desktop compositor effects, or video playing, when the Raspberry has supposedly more modern graphics hardware?

The Pi is made to be cheap, above all else. That means it was made on an old process node (28 nm) and they didn't devote much die space for the GPU portion. And even though it runs hot, it still burns like 0.15x as much power as those old AMD and Intel CPUs (which were made on similar manufacturing nodes, BTW).

Also, as others have mentioned, the memory datapath is only 32-bits, instead of the 128-bit path in modern CPUs. This means it has only about 13 GB/sec, whereas a 10-year-old Intel or AMD CPU would have almost 2x as much memory bandwidth.

And I don't understand how this machine was announced as capable of 4K video playback.

That depends on a hardware video decode block. You have to make sure it's working properly in whatever player you're trying to use.

[coder]

Most ARM designs have rather poor performance, unless it's from Apple or Ampere.
I honestly was surprised to see that a Raspberry Pi was only as fast as my Phenom...

This generalization makes no sense, whatsoever. A Pi v4 in no way represents "Most ARM designs". A modern cell phone SoC is a completely different animal. Made with core designs much newer, on a 5 nm process instead of 28 nm, with much better GPUs, and with much larger dies.

The Pi is made to be cheap, simple, and backward compatible. Also, lowish power, but obviously still runs hotter than above-mentioned phone SoCs.

As for the Pi matching your Phenom, IMO that's still quite an achievement when you can buy a new computer that fast, for as little as $45. Your Phenom-based machine sure didn't cost that, when it first came onto the market.

Pi's are never the fastest SBCs on the market. They're cheap and well-supported. That's the reason to use them.

I just fired up my ODROID N2+, the other day, and it felt almost like using a desktop PC. Granted, I didn't do anything heavy with it - just copied some pics off my phone and edited them with GIMP. Its CPU isn't a whole lot faster than Pi4's, but it has a better GPU. Oh, and being made on 12nm, it also barely broke 40 degrees C - and that was while I was also installing updates in the background.

[coder]

Because Apple did it.

Show me a M1 mini I can buy new, for $45 new (without storage). And not from somebody who stole one, but from a legit distribution channel.

Also, Pi v4 came out in 2019. So, it's already nearly 3 years old! Apple's M1 didn't come out 'till a couple years later.

[Quackdoc]

I have a Raspberry PI 4b 4GB.
How could it be that any aged, entry level, Intel or AMD processor (10 years) with integrated graphics, outperforms it in simple tasks like running GNOME or KDE desktop compositor effects, or video playing, when the Raspberry has supposedly more modern graphics hardware?

Of course it will be less performant even comparing to some older tech, the chips it's designed to use a fraction of the power. and are made to be extremely cheap to produce. with very low amounts of ram, 4-8gb shared between cpu and gpu which in turn cripples memory bandwidth.

age is NOT a good descriptor of performance, Raspberry pi 4 smokes my dual core celeron from 2015 which handily looses against many older cpus budget cpus from 2007 and before.

the issue with video decode is simple, it only supports 4k60 videos formatted in HEVC. which means you are forced to use local content, and not streaming. as long as you keep it within supported hwdec capabilities it works fine

[coder]

I want to point that my first comparison is with 10 year x86 processors.
At that time, the most common memory type was DDR3.
So we are comparing DDR4 with DDR3. Now we are halving the bandwidth.

The fact that you now get half the bandwidth on a quarter of the datapath and also less power and lower cost is something to be celebrated!

And even a cheap built machine, that ones that were populated with only one memory DIMM, were more capable to run smooth the GNOME desktop effects, the transitions, the scalar effects, and so on.

You probably used a dGPU and a monitor running at a lower resolution.

My blame is more for Raspberry PI foundation.

Wow, some people in this thread want the sun, the moon, and the stars... all for the low, low price of $19.95.

[DebianLinuxero]

Wow, some people in this thread want the sun, the moon, and the stars... all for the low, low price of $19.95.

I bought it like 2 years ago.
I spent nearly 100 euros in the board, a good memory card, a pack of dissipators, a fan, a case, a power supply, and a mini-HDMI to Display Port cable.

[coder]

I bought it like 2 years ago.
I spent nearly 100 euros in the board, a good memory card, a pack of dissipators, a fan, a case, a power supply, and a mini-HDMI to Display Port cable.

Yeah, but the proper comparison would be between the CPU, cooler, memory, motherboard, PSU, and case of your old PC vs. the pi, its case, heatsinks, and its power supply.

To be fair, you should exclude memory card and cable. You can reuse those for other things, as well.

[Quackdoc]

I bought it like 2 years ago.
I spent nearly 100 euros in the board, a good memory card, a pack of dissipators, a fan, a case, a power supply, and a mini-HDMI to Display Port cable.

so compare it with 100 euro with of current hardware, at least for me, where I am, that would stack up real nicely

[anarsoul]

I want to point that my first comparison is with 10 year x86 processors.
At that time, the most common memory type was DDR3.
So we are comparing DDR4 with DDR3. Now we are halving the bandwidth.

I've got lenovo x230 from 2011 which has 2 channels of DDR3 1600 MT/s, and TBH it doesn't do well with modern gnome.

Anyway, 2 channels of 64-bit DDR3 1600 MT/s has bandwidth of 1600 * 64 * 2 / 8 = 25600 MB/s (it would be 12800 MB/s via single channel)

While 1 channel of 32-bit DDR4 2400 MT/s has bandwidth of 2400 * 32 / 8 = 9600 MB/s.

So yeah, RPi4 has less memory bandwidth than 11yo laptop.