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Microsoft Eyeing OpenGL Compute + GLES 3.1 For Its Mesa D3D12 Backend

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  • #11
    Originally posted by arun54321 View Post

    As if they care about you happy or not.
    It's one of the things the de-blobbers don't grasp. Nobody upstream of them cares if they try to remove blobs, and will just keep adding more in the next round.

    You can't take a proprietary product and make it open. It just doesn't work.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post
      Second of all, they only have Gallium back end because it's necessary for them to get acceleration on linux at all using their shitty shim to avoid gpl.
      Uhh, there's no GPL code involved. It's all MIT or BSD licensed, I believe. And this is for acceleration on Windows.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by dragon321 View Post

        Would you prefer developers to rewrite their OpenGL code to D3D12 instead?
        Yes. Unless Microsoft starts supplying code to let Mesa run D3D12 run native on linux in mesa, or run on top of Vulkan/OpenGL, I see the downsides in helping microsoft run OpenGL/Vulkan ontop of D3D12. Microsoft gets to tout its support of a wide variety of platforms with our help, but Linux is stuck with less support and they don't help back. It puts Mesa running OSes at a disadvantage.

        It goes against the spirit of Free software.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
          Uhh, there's no GPL code involved. It's all MIT or BSD licensed, I believe. And this is for acceleration on Windows.
          the only current benefit this gives is WSL acceleration. to be clear GLonD3D12 does work on windows, not to any useful degree but it does work though last time I tested it was when pal1000 added support then again, zink wasn't usable either so maybe im a little outdated here. However the only good reason for the d3d12 backend to exist that I see is so that microsoft can get gpu acceleration in their VMs, like wsl. what microsoft has done is create an open source API (dxgkrnl) that can only really be used with a closed source library (libd3d12).

          the d3d12 backend is much like zink, it talks directly to d3d12.so from what I remember, that closed source library, is being used to get around implementing an open source alternative, (something like vulkan venus for instance).

          if it was as simple as getting good GL accel on windows, there would be more benefit in zink as windows would benefit from the same gains that linux users would, and a larger pool of people to benefit generally means a larger pool of people to contribute. whether it be code or bug reports, both are useful.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by GI_Jack View Post

            Yes. Unless Microsoft starts supplying code to let Mesa run D3D12 run native on linux in mesa, or run on top of Vulkan/OpenGL, I see the downsides in helping microsoft run OpenGL/Vulkan ontop of D3D12. Microsoft gets to tout its support of a wide variety of platforms with our help, but Linux is stuck with less support and they don't help back. It puts Mesa running OSes at a disadvantage.

            It goes against the spirit of Free software.
            Good. Microsoft should continue to do more of such things.

            You don't get to decide how people or businesses use FOSS.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post

              First of all, nice name,
              *Snip*
              In case anyone was wondering, I do not know Latin too well, but I was a child when my brother was learning Latin. He nicknamed me that because I have black hair and always wore black clothes.

              I am not a racist, and I believe there is only one Human species. If your blood can work in my body, then we are the same. Skin color does not change that.

              Now let us all forget I even addressed this. (I have had bad experiences on other forums with people who presumed a meaning to the nickname where none exists.)

              Back to Linux chat.

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              • #17
                Isn't this a job for Vulkan?

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by MadeUpName View Post
                  Isn't this a job for Vulkan?
                  That would require microsoft to do something that doesn't solely benefit them to lock users to their platform.

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                  • #19
                    Providing better OpenGL support on windows should make it easier to port existing software written in OpenGL to windows and make it easier for developers who might otherwise choose to target direct X to go with the more portable OpenGL instead.

                    For the cynical among you, feel free to object that OpenGL is a legacy API at this point and anything new ought to target vulcan instead, so developers wanting the features of a modern API will still have to choose dx12 on windows... But complaining that an MIT-licenced OpenGL implementation on windows is in itself bad for the future of open source software is just silly.

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                    • #20
                      How is mesa structured internally? Shouldn't it be possible to provide a D3D12 backend alongside a Vulkan one and e.g. use Zink as an OpenGL frontend for both?

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