Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Experimenting Is Underway For Rust Code Within Mesa

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by jacob View Post
    Being an experienced C++ developer is not measured by how many obscure features of the language you use. There are well-known issues with variadic templates that make a strong case for leaving them out.
    lol. variadic templates replace obscure features and there are no well-known issues with them. there are well-known issues with lack of them though, and that is known by any experienced dev. fun fact: designer of c++ variadic templates is one of designers of swift
    Originally posted by jacob View Post
    Rust on the other hand has them in the form of declarative macros, except that they are type-safe and memory-safe.
    except that they failed to prevent ridiculous and incomplete copypaste
    Originally posted by jacob View Post
    C co-creator Ken Thompson is now at Google working on Go so that makes C a total failure, right?
    it prevents c from being the solution to world hunger. and btw it shows that when you fail at c++, your c++ replacement can only attract python devs.
    c is not total failure, it was a starting point for c++, which is almost completely compatible, i.e. there's no reason to use c anymore, you can do the same in c++ much better. but some people fail at c++, keep suffering from c, and then they need some replacement for c, like java, go or rust
    Originally posted by jacob View Post
    A successful project becomes greater than a one-man show. If Stroustrup never moved on beyond C++ that indicates nothing as to the intrinsic qualities or lack thereof of C++ itself, only that he still likes working on C++.
    your posts indicate your complete lack of clue. c++ show has orders of magnitude more men than rust. if rust makes its author switch to working on swift in c++, that indicates something about intrinsic qualities of rust
    Last edited by pal666; 19 September 2021, 01:15 PM.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by oleid View Post
      There is an RFC for variadic templates, they are coming eventually.
      there's an implementation of liftime profile for c++, it also comes eventually. it's not enough for rust to get c++ features in distant future, because then c++ will get rust features too. in future you'll have to be better than future c++
      Originally posted by oleid View Post
      You make it sound as if he doesnt like or contribute to rust any more
      no, i make it sound as if for rust creator working on swift in c++ is better than working on rust in rust. which is immediately incompatible with rust being solution to any problem
      Originally posted by oleid View Post
      To sum it up: he's still contributing
      you obviously didn't read your link. to sum it up: he thinks that swift is better than rust and he doesn't work on rust anymore
      Originally posted by oleid View Post
      Obviously, swift is not written in rust.
      but next obvious thing is to demand swift rewrite in rust, right? or maybe abolishment of swift and rewrite of swift software in rust.
      Originally posted by oleid View Post
      Clearly, it makes no sense to rewrite code, which is fine, in rust. All these recent news were about using rust alongside existing code.
      i'm discussing reaction of phoronix readers who know neither rust nor programming. and they do demand nonsensical rewrites

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by pal666 View Post
        there's an implementation of liftime profile for c++,
        Yeah, you can already use that in clang and it is a joke.




        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by pal666 View Post
          there's an implementation of liftime profile for c++, it also comes eventually. it's not enough for rust to get c++ features in distant future, because then c++ will get rust features too. in future you'll have to be better than future c++
          1. The Rust approach is "Let C++ handle those use-cases until we're ready. Better to do it right once we're comfortable with the design than to rush a bad design now and have to support that baggage forever". (Or, as Shigeru Miyamoto said about... Mario 64, I think it was: "A late game is only late until it ships. A bad game is bad until the end of time.")
          2. There's a limit to how much of Rust's secret sauce C++ can acquire without breaking compatibility with existing C++ code or fracturing it into "legacy C++" and "Rust but with much uglier syntax". It'll be very difficult for Rust to not be better than future C++ in the ways that matter.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
            i.e. people were claiming ridiculously that the borrow checker runs at runtime, there is a world of difference between that and making a surface level argument
            Yeah, but you're missing the upside here: running into a comment like that early in their post means you can just skip ahead to the next one, AND ignore any other posts they've made too. It helps a lot when you haven't read the site for a couple of weeks and are trying to catch up on the backlog.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by cl333r View Post
              Flawed logic, you can't prove something (bugs) doesn't exist, you can only prove it exists.
              If you feel like searching for concurrency bugs you're welcome: https://github.com/f35f22fan/Cornus
              BTW I ended up having a look brief look at this code and I this is what I would class as trivial, more precisely you are using threads for concurrency on file-systems operations which is what i would classify as low hanging fruit.

              You have a point that its subjective defining what is trivial and what is not, but as a contrast have a look at something like servo which has, for example, multi core CSS rendering https://github.com/servo/servo.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
                like servo which has, for example, multi core CSS rendering https://github.com/servo/servo.
                Mozilla is pitching this CSS case for years already, I was citing this case to others when I was a Rust fanboy, did Rust allow them something else since then that they couldn't do in C++?

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
                  BTW I ended up having a look brief look at this code and I this is what I would class as trivial, more precisely you are using threads for concurrency on file-systems operations
                  Actually a lot of it is about loading stuff in parallel and allow the GUI to wait at startup until the necessary data is loaded, plus for other stuff.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by cl333r View Post

                    Mozilla is pitching this CSS case for years already, I was citing this case to others when I was a Rust fanboy, did Rust allow them something else since then that they couldn't do in C++?
                    The former Mozilla engineers pioneered a lot of areas. Most importantly being the development of Rust itself. For Firefox specifically, besides CSS parsing, we got WebRender out of it. We also got the creation of a cross-platform graphics API supporting the WebGPU API (wgpu). Which is used by Firefox, and more recently will be used by Deno. Speaking of Deno, it should also be known that the most popular WebAssembly runtimes are written in Rust, and Deno itself is created by the same person who create Node.JS. Deno is the next generation of a much better TypeScript-based platform running on top of a Deno VM written in Rust.

                    But Mozilla's just a small part of the overall Rust ecosystem. Not sure why people are bringing their name up now that the majority of development is done by other organizations. Much of the big achievements happening right now are in a wide range of areas from a wide number of businesses. Take GNOME for instance, where they've chosen Rust to be the future of their platform, with many of their applications now being written in Rust instead of C. Or how we now have some former Trolltech employees that were also KDE contributors that are responsible for giving us QML and Qt, which are now working on a next generation GUI toolkit in Rust called SixtyFPS.
                    Last edited by mmstick; 21 September 2021, 08:39 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by ssokolow View Post

                      How does Guix build GCC from source without already having a copy of GCC? ...or is this just another case of treating GCC specially?

                      I'm having trouble searching it up, but I ran across a blog post back around the beginning of this year (when there was the hullabaloo about the Python cryptography library adding a Rust dependency) which made that point very well.

                      A lot of platforms have really learned to take it for granted that GCC is the only compiler which has earned the privilege of being self-hosted and that they are somehow entitled to an upstream that's never heard of them remaining compatible with their "just happens to work" compilation solution, no matter how esoteric it is.

                      For verifying trustworthiness, mrustc is a compiler written in C++ which can build a relatively recent rustc version from source, which you can then use to re-bootstrap it to prove that the results are identical.

                      Once that's done once to verify correctness, the recommended way to reach new platforms is to implement support for targeting the relevant ISA in LLVM, write a platform definition, and then cross-compile rustc to it.
                      Sorry for getting so long to respond to you...

                      GNU Guix actually does build everything from source! Or it does very nearly... It's pretty rad!

                      https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2020/gu...ap-seed-to-25/

                      And you are correct! mrustc is how they bootstrap rust!

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X