Proposal Raised For Dropping Mesa's Classic OpenGL Drivers From Mainline This Year

[TemplarGR]

At some point, the drivers for any hardware will be mature enough that no more major improvements are likely or even possible. For a large part of the hardware being discussed here this is probably the case. So I think a legacy branch is a good idea in general, but we can still argue about what exactly should be moved to it. I think hardware that is both widely in use and has the potential for adding significant improvement should stay in mainline.
Exotic hardware that has only a handful users left? Off to the legacy branch.
Relatively simple hardware where the driver is mature and there is no more potential for supporting new APIs etc? Off to the legacy branch.

Myself, I have an old Radeon HD 7850 here, the model was released 9 years ago. I do not expect much more to happen in terms of driver optimization. What I still hope for is that errors will be fixed. So this one is almost ready to go to legacy.

There is no point in removing 7850, because it is GCN and is pretty close to much newer generations of hardware. But i could see AMD removing r300g at some point in the near future, r300g is definitely past the point of adding new features.

[Quackdoc]

So if I understand it, I9x5, users will be migrating to gallium based replacements? sounds good enough to me. so long as as I can switch easy enough I dont see an issue.

[smitty3268]

So if I understand it, I9x5, users will be migrating to gallium based replacements? sounds good enough to me. so long as as I can switch easy enough I dont see an issue.

No. The only difference is in your package manager you'll install "mesa-classic" to get the same driver you get now, rather than installing "mesa". The same way you pick different nvidia driver packages for old hardware vs current gpus.

Maybe in the longer term there will be gallium based replacements, but that's not what is being discussed here.

[Quackdoc]

No. The only difference is in your package manager you'll install "mesa-classic" to get the same driver you get now, rather than installing "mesa". The same way you pick different nvidia driver packages for old hardware vs current gpus.

Maybe in the longer term there will be gallium based replacements, but that's not what is being discussed here.

sounds like that's a stop gap, in the mailing list, they talk about how work is being done to replace I9x5 with gallium alternatives. i915g seems to be getting work done to it, and i965 is getting a new gallium alternative, but neither are ready, it sounds like mesa classic-lts will wind up being a stop gap until gallium alternative drivers are ready.

[Guest]

I think this makes sense and honestly, I love my old hardware, but -does 3D performance matter- if you're running an old GPU that can't do OpenGL >4.3 or rack-up more than a fraction of a TFLOP? I'd think that just using llvmpipe software rendering would be fine for day-to-day use of these machines in whatever roles they're fulfilling now.

Lol no. There's a huge gulf between software rendering and even a non-powerful GPU like the one in my smartwatch.

Hardware acceleration through GPUs is absolutely essential for any sort of GUI. Especially on older hardware.

[mangeek]

Hardware acceleration through GPUs is absolutely essential for any sort of GUI. Especially on older hardware.

I guess what I'm asking is... how relevant is 'desktop GUI' for a system that's more than five years old?

I've been using Linux as a desktop for more than 20 years. It would always -work-, and it would always shine on old stuff better than Windows as far as pushing packets, but it's only been getting good at pushing pixels recently, and I feel like the meme of Linux providing some sort of eternal youth to hardware is an impossible ask when it comes to desktop experience.

I had a circa-2012 Xeon system up until recently, with integrated graphics. It ran a mean web/database/Minecraft/Build server, and still kicked butt when I put a Quadro 600 in it, but otherwise it was an awful desktop experience under Windows or Linux. Moore killed it, not Mesa.

[Guest]

I guess what I'm asking is... how relevant is 'desktop GUI' for a system that's more than five years old?

I've been using Linux as a desktop for more than 20 years. It would always -work-, and it would always shine on old stuff better than Windows as far as pushing packets, but it's only been getting good at pushing pixels recently, and I feel like the meme of Linux providing some sort of eternal youth to hardware is an impossible ask when it comes to desktop experience.

I had a circa-2012 Xeon system up until recently, with integrated graphics. It ran a mean web/database/Minecraft/Build server, and still kicked butt when I put a Quadro 600 in it, but otherwise it was an awful desktop experience under Windows or Linux. Moore killed it, not Mesa.

Did you have the relevant kernel and userspace drivers installed? Not sure what distro you had running on it, and whether or not it had the relevant software. Also does it actually have an Intel iGPU? As far as I know server hardware just has some simple framebuffer + 2D acceleration.

[hotaru]

I guess what I'm asking is... how relevant is 'desktop GUI' for a system that's more than five years old?

I've been using Linux as a desktop for more than 20 years. It would always -work-, and it would always shine on old stuff better than Windows as far as pushing packets, but it's only been getting good at pushing pixels recently, and I feel like the meme of Linux providing some sort of eternal youth to hardware is an impossible ask when it comes to desktop experience.

I had a circa-2012 Xeon system up until recently, with integrated graphics. It ran a mean web/database/Minecraft/Build server, and still kicked butt when I put a Quadro 600 in it, but otherwise it was an awful desktop experience under Windows or Linux. Moore killed it, not Mesa.

Linux on the Sandy Bridge Xeon system that I have here with an AMD Vega FE can push pixels just fine.