Mesa Developers Discuss The Possibility Of Rust Graphics Driver Code

[phoronix]

Phoronix: Mesa Developers Discuss The Possibility Of Rust Graphics Driver Code

A proposal is being discussed over the possibility of beginning to make use of the Rust programming language within Mesa 3D for this open-source OpenGL/Vulkan driver stack along with the likes of Gallium3D video acceleration...

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...020-Discussion

[skeevy420]

I read that as Nasa Developers ... and thought a mix of "Wait?! They're using Rust....for graphics drivers?" and "Typo: It's NASA."

And then I read it again

[Alexmitter]

The issue with Rust is still that there is no proper compiler that just creates proper bytecode, just this LLVM thing. I guess if GCC could compile Rust, this can be asked again.

[darkbasic]

> Some also feel Mesa would just be better off moving towards modern C++ standards as a better fit for these drivers than going for Rust while achieving many of the same benefits

This should be done anyway independently of Rust

[Chewi]

Much of a Rust toolchain installation is LLVM and Mesa often needs LLVM anyway.

[zxy_thf]

The issue with Rust is still that there is no proper compiler that just creates proper bytecode, just this LLVM thing. I guess if GCC could compile Rust, this can be asked again.

Yeah this is actually one of my major concerns.
I'm really relucant to be packed into the LLVM bandwagon

[bug77]

The issue with Rust is still that there is no proper compiler that just creates proper bytecode, just this LLVM thing. I guess if GCC could compile Rust, this can be asked again.

What does "proper bytecode" mean?
According to these:
https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.de.../rust-gpp.html
https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.de...test/rust.html

Rust is basically the same as C++. C does a little better in the memory department, but overall speed is again the same.

[moltonel]

The issue with Rust is still that there is no proper compiler that just creates proper bytecode, just this LLVM thing. I guess if GCC could compile Rust, this can be asked again.

Not sure what you're getting at, both LLVM and GCC produce native binaries, which perform pretty much the same.

[moltonel]

> Some also feel Mesa would just be better off moving towards modern C++ standards

This should be done anyway independently of Rust

Moving from C to C++ isn't a no-brainer any more than moving from C to Rust is. C has a lot of problems, but it has served Mesa well so far, and adding any new language to a single-language project is a big ask. Adding two languages to the mix in one go is probably pushing it too far, so it makes sense to choose carefully.

C++ has more developers (especially if you put all C++ versions in the same bucket), it's well integrated with C build systems, has slightly wider platform support, and allows more niche code constructs. But compared to Rust it takes longer to become proficient with, it takes a lot more effort to secure, it has more linking/FFI issues, it has more platform-specific differences... It's a complex set of pros&cons, and rational people can reach opposite conclusions.

[bug77]

Moving from C to C++ isn't a no-brainer any more than moving from C to Rust is. C has a lot of problems, but it has served Mesa well so far, and adding any new language to a single-language project is a big ask. Adding two languages to the mix in one go is probably pushing it too far, so it makes sense to choose carefully.

C++ has more developers (especially if you put all C++ versions in the same bucket), it's well integrated with C build systems, has slightly wider platform support, and allows more niche code constructs. But compared to Rust it takes longer to become proficient with, it takes a lot more effort to secure, it has more linking/FFI issues, it has more platform-specific differences... It's a complex set of pros&cons, and rational people can reach opposite conclusions.

Tbh this isn't about adding Rust or C++ to Mesa code directly, but rather to Mesa drivers. I think that's a smart approach, if it doesn't pan out, you only have to revert one or two drivers.