Originally posted by TemplarGR
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Mesa Developers Discussing Again Whether To Fork Or Drop Non-Gallium3D Drivers
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Originally posted by Shevchen View Post(And in Intels case: Who plays games on an IGP?)
BTW AMD only has 15% ...Last edited by Raka555; 30 March 2020, 07:34 AM.
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Originally posted by s_j_newbury View Post
Sorry, but as you allude to this is nonsense. "Performance" is arguably even *more* important on older hardware, especially mobile devices like laptops because without acceleration, they're pretty much useless. There is no "modern tech race", either the hardware performs adequately for the given task, or it doesn't. If you want to run AAA games titles, you need a capable system, there's no other way around it, dropping support for last years hardware isn't going to turn today's budget systems magically into PS5s.
And we do have a tech race - there is a reason why ACO is pushed so hard.
Originally posted by s_j_newbury View PostWhat if you have *no* budget for a new system? Why would you want to replace a 5+ year old system with a new one with equivalent performance anyway?
Originally posted by s_j_newbury View PostIntel dropping support for Beignet is a real PITA*, I have an high end mobile IVB GT2 which despite claims to the contrary achieves pretty reasonable OpenCL performance, certainly better than not using it! But Intel decided to only support GEN8+ with the new driver. Same situation with the new Gallium3D driver, I'm sure few would have issue if they supported all of their OpenGL4 capable hardware, but Ivybridge/Haswel are slightly different to later revised designs while nearly as capable.
The "no budget" point is a problem, but I also don't demand raytracing if I only have 50 bucks in my hand. (broadly speaking)
Originally posted by s_j_newbury View PostThere is an extension of your suggestion - that would sort of make more sense; that's to drop all support for Intel CPUs with critical security flaws which require kernel mitigation. That really would allow a lot of code to be dropped from the kernel and the possibility of higher performance...
* I've not been able to build Beignet for a while (can't figure out why) and just to rub in salt I've not been able to get the legacy Fermi NVIDIA driver to work recently so I've lost all OpenCL support on this system!
Originally posted by TemplarGR View PostI think what MESA should create is a MESA CLASSIC version, and put all the classic MESA drivers there. People with classic MESA drivers will be installing the Classic package, and people with modern gallium drivers will be installing the normal MESA package. Seems clear to me.Last edited by Shevchen; 30 March 2020, 07:35 AM.
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I think it boils down to the fact that Linux is not just a toy for kids and gamers. A high number of machines with this kind of hardware are still used within the industry. Even commercial operating systems like Windows provide a driver for them out of the box.
In the ideal world, they *should* be dropped but then replaced with a wonderful Gallium3D based replacement
I the Linux community really struggling to find man power to maintain them? Or is Intel being wasteful? This could be an example of relying too much on a company when it comes to digital / hardware preservation.Last edited by kpedersen; 30 March 2020, 06:40 AM.
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Originally posted by s_j_newbury View PostBug fixes in shared code? It *will* bit-rot out of tree. How many out-of-tree Mesa driver drivers are maintained? Overhead and additional system complexity from GLVND?
I think splitting the trees is a benefit to both sides. Modern drivers can develop without being hold of by decades old hardware and decades old hardware have a place to get some visibility.
And since OpenGL is pretty much dead at this point the Gallium/OpenGL part of Mesa becomes even more irrelevant in the future. It will all be "legacy software support" at some point. And even that could be mapped to Vulkan (i.e. Zink)Last edited by -MacNuke-; 30 March 2020, 06:02 AM.
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Originally posted by Shevchen View PostIn short - modern APUs can deliver the GPU performance from GPUs that are 5+ years old and are cheap as hell. So if performance is an issue, but budget is a limiting factor: There are solutions.
As for old hardware, the issue is not that the hardware is old, the issue is that Intel were stubborn for years and refused to switch to the gallium infastructure for their drivers until recently. AMD has a gallium driver for even the R300 architecture, which is approaching 2 decades of existence...
I disagree with creating a MESA LTS version. For many reasons. One is that LTS usually means "only bugfixes allowed" but there could be feature work that could apply to Classic drivers in the future, so why call it LTS? And another reason is that we don't need another kernel situation where we have 5-6 different MESA LTS versions, LOL.
I think what MESA should create is a MESA CLASSIC version, and put all the classic MESA drivers there. People with classic MESA drivers will be installing the Classic package, and people with modern gallium drivers will be installing the normal MESA package. Seems clear to me.
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From someone with a perfectly good Haswell laptop that works fine and where I play some games. I do appreciate the work still being done on the i1965 driver. Specially because it has allowed me to play some perfectly good games in the 20.x release that I could not have played on the 19.x releases.
My choice would be migrating Ivy Bridge and Haswell to Iris (or another gallium based). But as I don't get paid to do it and don't have the knowledge of Intel gpus to do it I will of course accept whatever decision is reached.Last edited by fahrenheit; 30 March 2020, 06:00 AM.
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Me and my wife are still using Haswell based laptops as daily driver. Still good enough except gaming, but that is our PC for
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What’s the big deal? It’s not like we can expect these hardware to support any more features. And we can anytime install the still maintained fork. Like apt/yum install mesa-classic or even comes pre-installed. The 2 Mesa can co-exist.
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Originally posted by -MacNuke- View Post
And there was near to no change for these systems in mesa for quite some time. So it's not like you will miss something by using a mesa-legacy driver.
This is all just justification/rationalization for Intel not supporting 5 year old GEN7.x in their current drivers. It is understandable from a commercial point of view, but really not customer friendly! This is $1000+ hardware, which is already massively depreciated by the numerous security flaws, it's not unreasonable to expect better.
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