Originally posted by Candy
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Apple Deprecates OpenGL & OpenCL
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Originally posted by Candy View Post
I tell you something.
I bought a MacBook Pro 13" (2010) back that time when it was updated. Thought getting a system that comes from one hand. The main intention was Java development. It ended up lasting exactly 2 months, then the HD died.
...
During the time using OSX (that time), the OS caused a lot of freezes during boot up and boot down. Random freezes there and here. And something that totally pissed me off was those hidden .DS_Store files.
For my main work machine I've been using a Mac since 2011 exclusively, and I've never had a hard drive die on me. The only hardware issue I had on 4 Macs in total was an unresponsive key, which was after I literally bathed the keyboard with Red Bull...
On the other hand the issues I have to fight with weekly on my Linux machine would be absolutely unacceptable in a work environment. That's why I only use Linux at home.
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Originally posted by msotirov View PostIt's unfortunate that this happened to you but it sounds like your total usage of macOS was just 2 months. I don't think that's enough to be able to judge the experience objectively.
Originally posted by msotirov View PostFor my main work machine I've been using a Mac since 2011 exclusively, and I've never had a hard drive die on me. The only hardware issue I had on 4 Macs in total was an unresponsive key, which was after I literally bathed the keyboard with Red Bull...
Originally posted by msotirov View PostOn the other hand the issues I have to fight with weekly on my Linux machine would be absolutely unacceptable in a work environment.
I used to work as an IT-Consultant for a large cumputer company (used to be located in Falls Church) where every employee got a pre-configured (full of spying software) Windows XP machine (way back). I tell you something about "unacceptable" at work! You needed to contact your floor manager and GIS (these people pre-customizing your PC) before you can install anything on it. A lot of questions why you needed a custom JDK version on your machine and why 1.4.2 wasn't enought. And explaining them what Eclipse is meant to be and why NotePad+++ wasn't enought.
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Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
Wrong again... Carmac was just one of the many game developers who Apple consulted with in their effort to get more games on OSX and getting their OpenGL implementation up to scratch was what they overwhelmingly recommended and what made sense at the time as desktop was their #1 focus and the iPad was still some ideas on a whiteboard. Don't forget that Metal's "1.0" release was in 2014 while Vulkan didn't see it's 1.0 release until 2016.
What the release of Metal 1.0 brought to Apple is, that they can claim being first and damage the ecosystem. People, who are unable to check what they really brought, will then repeat that claim.
Originally posted by L_A_G View PostThese days they have Metal which started out as a genuinely necessary addition for iOS as OpenGL ES just wasn't providing the low overhead needed when you want to do high end graphics on mobile without draining the battery excessively fast. So when they got this working well there really wasn't all that much to justify continuing to duplicating efforts.
Originally posted by L_A_G View PostThe fact that that Vulkan wasn't really even on the drawing board when Apple was already well underway with with Metal is enough to show that you really don't know what you're talking about. Metal was originally developed for iOS where the efficiency of low level APIs like it are most useful and it gave them a major edge that their competitors in said space are only really now catching up with.
Other than that, I'm not really suprised, that Apple deprecates OpenGL. Their implementation is hopelessly outdated, and if they wanted to catch up, the OpenGL 4.6 brings in SPIR-V shaders (aka vulkan shaders) to the table as mandatory.
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Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostMore like won't support Mac alltogether anymore.
That being said, as a (non-stupid) long time Mac user I would've liked to see Apple continuing or even extending support for cross-platform APIs since I value the current interoperability with linux macOS offers. The code, I am developing on my machine runs on HPCs just as well. The same goes for scientific tools like ParaView and such. Those will be the things to watch out for when OpenGL and OpenCL support dwindles.
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Originally posted by Candy View PostI used to work as an IT-Consultant for a large cumputer company (used to be located in Falls Church) where every employee got a pre-configured (full of spying software) Windows XP machine (way back). I tell you something about "unacceptable" at work! You needed to contact your floor manager and GIS (these people pre-customizing your PC) before you can install anything on it. A lot of questions why you needed a custom JDK version on your machine and why 1.4.2 wasn't enought. And explaining them what Eclipse is meant to be and why NotePad+++ wasn't enought.
My work environment is actually my own web agency so I don't get stuff like this dictated to me. The problem is I just couldn't afford to have my employees spend a day or two fixing the window manager or installing kernel patches every now and again. Also having access to Sketch is kind of a must in the web development industry these days.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not updating to one of the new touchbar Macbooks anytime soon. They really messed up with them. I'm just gonna see how long we can last with our 2014/15 maxed out MBPs.
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Originally posted by lu_tze View PostJobs never really cared about games; it was always more of the effort of the dev houses to bring anything than Mac OS (both Classic and X) making things easier for them.
Also, Metal "1.0" and Vulkan "1.0" are not comparable; Metal 1.0 was a very limited release, that did only support a very limited use cases on very limited hardware (it didn't support the concept of GPUs with discrete memory, for example. That's why it was iOS only, where the GPUs are UMA).
You can go on about features all you like, but when your alternative is literally nothing (Mantle was after all Windows-only abandonware at that point), then an API primarily made for mobile devices with unified memory architectures is going to be far superior despite it's shortcomings.
Or they could, you know, keep their OpenGL/OpenGL ES implementations up-to-date and bring in AZDO. Which is exactly the way that Nvidia wanted to go.
That's a gross rewrite of history, Nvidia was already pushing AZDO and AMD was pushing Mantle, Vulkan is based on Mantle, together with Nvidias input. Why do you think that Apple has more knowledge about GPU inner working than Nvidia with AMD combined?
The simple reality here is that the Khronos group dragged it's heels so Apple went off on their own which years down the road lead to Apple being in the unenviable position of having to chose between pissing off the open source&API crowd, developers on their own ecosystem or hamper development and maintenance of their graphics subsystem by having to duplicate loads of effort.
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Originally posted by Leopard View PostApple's OpenGL movement was purely a John Carmack effect , nothing more.
So in a that kind of situation Carmack told " OpenGL is the way if you want me to release the game on Mac , including giving a speech about it on your conference "
And of course the perfectly beautiful high level scene graph API (not comparable to OpenGL) called QuickDraw3D was killed in the process.
There was a less nice lower level triangle pushing API I forget the name of which was more targeted at games - I personally didn't mind that going but I'm sure it pissed off some people (Bungie?)
I still miss QuickDraw3D - I never forgave Apple for that - and it was strike one for me ending development for Mac OS - they're just too happy to throw developers to the wolves when their people are distracted by the next shiny thing.
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Originally posted by TheOne View PostIs time for some capable soul to write an OpenGL implementation atop Vulkan...
How can an almost 1$ TRILLION company not invest a couple of fucking developers to make a wrapper to keep their "legacy technologies" alive at least for "legacy applications", and yet we have a couple of developers working for free doing it with DirectX? (I'm talking about VK9 and DXVK, not vkd3d)
Keep in mind they did say it will stop working in the future, meaning they've no plans for a wrapper, full stop. I cannot for the life of me justify this, not now, not ever, regardless of my deep hatred for this company's policies.
I know Apple is a pathetic company, but come on. Why the fuck is Apple so adamant on removing stuff? They act as if it's a huge burden to maintain a wrapper, as if they have a bunch of coders in a garage working on it and very limited resources, when they're in fact close to 1$ trillion market cap, surely you can hire one or two fucking guys to maintain it and it wouldn't even be a drop in the bucket for them?!??
And despite this there's always people who will find a reason to defend this sorry excuse of a company, no matter how hard it screws them over (not just in software, also in price gouging and so on).
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