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Nouveau Developers Remain Blocked By NVIDIA From Advancing Open-Source Driver

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  • Originally posted by duby229 View Post

    So basically what your claim is that when you have cold symptoms it's better to cut your achilles tendon than it is to blow your nose.
    Crappy example. First: blowing your nose does not have any effect on cold. It's simply something that would pass with time as your immune system works itself through it. Or it would kill you - In case your immune system cannot handle it (elderly, pregnant, cancer patients (cytostatic therapy often destroys bone marrow and along with that "goes" immune system) etc)

    Not implementing necessary restrictions would have meant "cutting Achilles tendon" for Nvidia. Problem would not have simply "gone away". The very fact that scammers are still (multiple years later) trying to sell 10xx-series faked cards online using ancient cards as a "base model" just proves it.

    There would always be idiots falling for the scam. With enough such, probability arises that sooner or later someone would go to court. Even without the eventuality - crappy performing cards and people whining about it online would hurt Nvidia's PR.


    Btw: outrage of a couple percentage of PC users cannot IMHO be described as cutting Achilles tendon. We have very little economic impact to Nvidia. It's majort clients are enterprise and gamers. "Pinprick of a needle" or "annoying mosquito buzzing somewhere in the room" would be more apt descriptions.
    Last edited by aht0; 09-25-2017, 09:49 AM. Reason: typos

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    • Originally posted by aht0 View Post

      Crappy example. First: blowing your nose does not have any effect on cold. It's simply something that would pass with time as your immune system works itself through it. Or it would kill you - In case your immune system cannot handle it (elderly, pregnant, cancer patients (cytostatic therapy often destroys bone marrow and along with that "goes" immune system) etc)

      Not implementing necessary restrictions would have meant "cutting Achilles tendon" for Nvidia. Problem would not have simply "gone away". The very fact that scammers are still (multiple years later) trying to sell 10xx-series faked cards online using ancient cards as a "base model" just proves it.

      There would always be idiots falling for the scam. With enough such, probability arises that sooner or later someone would go to court. Even without the eventuality - crappy performing cards and people whining about it online would hurt Nvidia's PR.


      Btw: outrage of a couple percentage of PC users cannot IMHO be described as cutting Achilles tendon. We have very little economic impact to Nvidia. It's majort clients are enterprise and gamers. "Pinprick of a needle" or "annoying mosquito buzzing somewhere in the room" would be more apt descriptions.
      Ok, but in this case a few percentage represents, not the bottom few but the top few. And also as a percentage of a raw value it's still millions of people, and they tend to be the elite that make final decisions. Hence achilles tendon. I think it's perfectly apt.

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      • Originally posted by duby229 View Post

        Ok, but in this case a few percentage represents, not the bottom few but the top few. And also as a percentage of a raw value it's still millions of people, and they tend to be the elite that make final decisions. Hence achilles tendon. I think it's perfectly apt.
        When was the last time you bought brand new card from Nvidia and what is your average hardware upgrade cycle? Gamers (on windows) refresh fairly often. Yearly, over a year - give or take.. unless you are a kid on tight budget, it's tolerable expense. Card costing 500 euros may sound bad and expensive - but think, it's actually price range of a decent mobile phone..

        As average user.. no fucking point doing it more often that once over a 3-5 years. Even then most might just buy whole PC from the store and have whatever cheapo card put in the case in advance. You DO NOT need "as much performance and fps as possible" for game X.

        Agreed?

        Couple of million users with cheapish discrete cards, upgrading rarely or not at all mean literally nothing financially for a manufacturer..

        50-100 millions or so, who are generally buying enthusiast or mid-range cards mean the exact opposite. They do mean major flow of cash. Perception that "Nvidia cards perform bad" could cost manufacturer hundreds of millions right there..

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        • Originally posted by aht0 View Post

          When was the last time you bought brand new card from Nvidia and what is your average hardware upgrade cycle? Gamers (on windows) refresh fairly often. Yearly, over a year - give or take.. unless you are a kid on tight budget, it's tolerable expense. Card costing 500 euros may sound bad and expensive - but think, it's actually price range of a decent mobile phone..

          As average user.. no fucking point doing it more often that once over a 3-5 years. Even then most might just buy whole PC from the store and have whatever cheapo card put in the case in advance. You DO NOT need "as much performance and fps as possible" for game X.

          Agreed?

          Couple of million users with cheapish discrete cards, upgrading rarely or not at all mean literally nothing financially for a manufacturer..

          50-100 millions or so, who are generally buying enthusiast or mid-range cards mean the exact opposite. They do mean major flow of cash. Perception that "Nvidia cards perform bad" could cost manufacturer hundreds of millions right there..
          I disagree, you're basing that on the assumption that tens of millions of people are going to ebay to buy illegally rebranded cards, and that's just not happening. Not at that scale at least.

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          • Originally posted by duby229 View Post

            I disagree, you're basing that on the assumption that tens of millions of people are going to ebay to buy illegally rebranded cards, and that's just not happening. Not at that scale at least.
            No, you are the one doing assumptions here. Assuming what I assume.

            I did not give any definite figure as my "assumption". Nvidia reacted after scam became industrial in scale. It means cards came under certain brand names (like Vamery) and had nice official-looking support cd containing modified drivers with them - because Nvidia's own drivers would not recognize the cards. So there must have been duped people a plenty. Considering Chinese internal market alone, your "ten million" might not be even off mark. Can you claim that such cards were also not sold retail in China itself. It is a land of wonders when it comes to IP, copyrights and knock-offs..
            Last edited by aht0; 09-25-2017, 01:35 PM.

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            • Originally posted by aht0 View Post

              No, you are the one doing assumptions here. Assuming what I assume.

              I did not give any definite figure as my "assumption". Nvidia reacted after scam became industrial in scale. It means cards came under certain brand names (like Vamery) and had nice official-looking support cd containing modified drivers with them - because Nvidia's own drivers would not recognize the cards. So there must have been duped people a plenty. Considering Chinese internal market alone, your "ten million" might not be even off mark. Can you claim that such cards were also not sold retail in China itself. It is a land of wonders when it comes to IP, copyrights and knock-offs..
              You do make an excellent point. I can't honestly say I know what's going on in China in this matter. But I think I can say with reasonable sureness that it's not happening at that scale in the rest of the world. If accurate then its akin to to cutting off the right hand to spite the left.

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              • Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                So basically what your claim is that when you have cold symptoms it's better to cut your achilles tendon than it is to blow your nose.
                I love it. That has to be translated from some other language than English, am I right ?

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                • Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                  On the article, this was mentioned:



                  Can't the Nouveau guys tell us where these firmware images are, if they are accessible publicly? Surely we can get them ourselves and then manually drop them into /lib/firmware ? At least that will allow us to get hardware acceleration working, enough to render the desktop environment.
                  Seriously, no one knows how to answer this? Is it not even possible to extract the firmware out from the proprietary driver?

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                  • Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                    Seriously, no one knows how to answer this? Is it not even possible to extract the firmware out from the proprietary driver?
                    It is possible and I think more or less described in the Nouveau wiki how to do this.
                    Other than that, I think your questions have been mostly addressed already in this thread. You may want to start reading at post #78 and #79.
                    Last edited by chithanh; 09-26-2017, 04:35 AM.

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                    • Originally posted by chithanh View Post
                      It is possible and I think more or less described in the Nouveau wiki how to do this.
                      Other than that, I think your questions have been mostly addressed already in this thread. You may want to start reading at post #78 and #79.
                      They changed the format.

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