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Nouveau: NVIDIA's New Hardware Is "VERY Open-Source Unfriendly"

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  • #31
    Intel is an NSA-friendly monopolist with blobs on the hardware

    Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    Yeap, which is why on hardware that doesn't require anything special, it's Intel all the way. But when you do need to run something even slightly graphics intensive, well... <snip>
    As for Intel, their monopolist behavior and their connections to the military-industrial complex are all reasons to buy something else. I will never buy Intel new unless no other vendor makes a rougly comparable device, for "corporate" reasons alone. This does not apply to dumpstered or computer show Intel, only to Intel products bought new. For new AMD is good enough and does not fund all the things I use computers to fight against. For you gamers out there, suppose buying Intel meant your opponents got the in-game assets that would trade on the underground market for the same amount of real cash? Well, that's exactly what it would do for me.

    With Intel there are plenty of blobs-the GPU ones seem to be mask-programmed into the chip (or on flash we don't know how to find or rewrite) so they cannot be replaced. Intel's CPU driver blobs can be overriden by updated versions from disk. That is allowed because otherwise a firmware mistake forces an expensive chip recall like the Pentium floating point bug did.

    Even if there were no blobs, to be "turtles all the day down" open the actual routines invoked by every command would have to be documented. Tbere is exactly no difference between a non-replaceable microcode blob and a set of gates to do the exact same job except the dedicated gates will probably be faster.

    The Nvidia situation gets into the disadvantage of a replaceable blob: the possiblity of malicious replacement. This is like Intel's decision to lock CPU multipliers in the P-III era because OEM's would overclock the cheaper procs and sell them as the higher-clocked part. Now they use it to demand an extra $50 for the unlocked versions.

    With Nvidia, the excuse is the Chinese vendors replacing the firmware to fake a high end card. This could have been solved by locking just one part of the firmware: the part that makes the chip tell the motherboard which model it is! Suppose all parts of an unsigned firmware would work, but the chip on failing to detect a signature would report itself either as "non-genuine," or as the lowest model Nvidia made that year? If the alternate firmware was a real one from something like Nouveau, it would still function the same way but it would not report itself to a buyer as being something valuble.

    Of course, any fraudster could load the box normally containing a high-end card with any old GPU and s sticker on it, maybe even a big fake heatsink. I don't know why they even bother with the firmware as they will be found out very quickly anyway when someone buys a card that does not perform even up to the lowest level card's benchmarks. Hell I've heard of wooden planks loaded into Ipad boxes and sold in parking lots, no firmware required there either.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by grok View Post
      Do you know you can ask nvidia's driver installer to only recompile the kernel module?,
      e.g. you run as root
      Code:
      sh NVIDIA-Linux-blahblah.run -K
      Except I'm not using NVIDIA's installer, but the RPMs. And yes, it's not terribly difficult to select to reinstall them, but it's still annoying.

      Exactly! It doesn't exist in any official repository.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
        Exactly! It doesn't exist in any official repository.
        Well, that's Suse's fault for not providing it, not Nvidia's.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post
          You are this quick to anger? Over a video card driver? You have some serious mental health issues. Just buy an AMD card already, the open source drivers are great.
          He's totally right. For instance it's almost impossible to find a good laptop with a Radeon. My Samsung 870Z5E is almost the only one laptop with IPS screen and Intel+AMD graphics... :/

          Nvidia are total assholes.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Qaridarium
            Because of this nvidia anti-opensource bullshit I only bought AMD hardware since 2007!!!

            hd3850,hd4850,hd5670,hd6870,hd7850 .... and many other graphic cards for customers.

            everyone else should also stop buying nvidia hardware.
            Q? Since when are you unbanned? D:

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            • #36
              Originally posted by duby229 View Post
              nVidia's opengl implementation on linux is definitely not standard compliant. It is a fast and stable implementation, but it isn't compliant with standards.
              It's pretty close. I doubt anyone who isn't familiar with the very fine details of the specification would be able to tell the difference.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
                Q? Since when are you unbanned? D:
                Hey, you're right. Welcome back !
                Test signature

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                • #38
                  Bigger problem is finding a cheap AMD laptop

                  Originally posted by vitalif View Post
                  He's totally right. For instance it's almost impossible to find a good laptop with a Radeon. My Samsung 870Z5E is almost the only one laptop with IPS screen and Intel+AMD graphics... :/

                  Nvidia are total assholes.
                  The bigger issue is finding a cheap AMD laptop. When I got my netbook, only Intel even made CPU's for them, there were some Fusion chips later but those were in upscale machines to compete with Nvidia's Ion setup. Fortunately that was before all that Poulsbo/PowerVR shit, though normally I run these machines without OpenGL DE's etc. Hell they can run VESA so long as the chip stays cool if the screen's native resolution is supported, which actually it is not in Intel Atom of that era.

                  As for ARM, too many of those are locked, and they cannot share a single cloned OS with my big AMD desktop machines. Intel's corporate practices are about as appetizing as a mouth full of dogshit, so I didn't like this situation at all. Nvidia was never a factor as you don't find discrete GPU is bottom barrel, minimum-weight netbooks except for some of the Ion models. I would have avoided those over the GPU driver issue unless they were used and cheap. I never complained about using VESA on a Pentium II laptop I got for $15 in 2009, after all-it lit up the whole screen and ran X, that was enough.

                  The strange thing is that there are quite a few fullsize laptops with AMD Athon II CPU's, yet Nvidia graphics. Changing graphics cards in a laptop is said to be difficult because of variations in the physical devices.

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                  • #39
                    I suspect you can have the dkms backend installed etc. but a lack of configuration, when the dkms stuff will not bother to compile the nvidia kernel module and you'd have to register the module in some way.
                    If you install a newer or different kernel (not a security udpate) the system might also omit to install the kernel headers, but that's a separate issue.

                    I say all that in a generic way, not Suse/OpenSuse related - I don't know what happens in particular there.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Luke View Post
                      The bigger issue is finding a cheap AMD laptop. When I got my netbook, only Intel even made CPU's for them, there were some Fusion chips later but those were in upscale machines to compete with Nvidia's Ion setup. Fortunately that was before all that Poulsbo/PowerVR shit, though normally I run these machines without OpenGL DE's etc. Hell they can run VESA so long as the chip stays cool if the screen's native resolution is supported, which actually it is not in Intel Atom of that era.

                      As for ARM, too many of those are locked, and they cannot share a single cloned OS with my big AMD desktop machines. Intel's corporate practices are about as appetizing as a mouth full of dogshit, so I didn't like this situation at all. Nvidia was never a factor as you don't find discrete GPU is bottom barrel, minimum-weight netbooks except for some of the Ion models. I would have avoided those over the GPU driver issue unless they were used and cheap. I never complained about using VESA on a Pentium II laptop I got for $15 in 2009, after all-it lit up the whole screen and ran X, that was enough.

                      The strange thing is that there are quite a few fullsize laptops with AMD Athon II CPU's, yet Nvidia graphics. Changing graphics cards in a laptop is said to be difficult because of variations in the physical devices.
                      I wouldn't say that it's hard to find a cheap AMD laptop... in fact it seems most AMD laptops are cheap and thus have not that great specs. On our market.yandex.ru the most top-priced AMD laptop is MSI GX60 which costs ~1200$ according to current USD/RUR rate and most are below 700$. And the ONLY ONE model with AMD CPU and IPS screen is 13.3" ASUS VivoBook U38N. THE ONLY ONE!!! (

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