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Nouveau vs. NVIDIA Linux Comparison Shows Shortcomings

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  • archibald
    replied
    Originally posted by brosis View Post
    If you have "no time", "I have better things to do" etc, which is adult word for "I am lazy", please elaborate on what you need to motivate you. Because you either work on it or its left broken. I am sure many many hardware owners at distribution forums WILL support you, but those support IS binding, so be realistic and let users decide if they accept your price.
    "no time" in no way equates to being lazy. There are a limited number of hours in the day, and sleeping, eating and working your employer generally take priority. No matter how much I want to work on/contribute to X, Y and Z, there's a limit to how much time I can devote to them.

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  • brosis
    replied
    @calim, thanks for responding! Thats a spirit responsibility already, so I am already gratefull to you!

    Originally posted by calim View Post
    The subliminal message was more along the lines of "If it doesn't work, fix it !" I'm trying to get people to contribute but they're awfully resistant. Maybe that's not the right way. But then, if everything worked, who would feel the need to ... and having a workaround lowers the pain and hence the incentive to find a proper fix. NOTE: My opinion, not that of the whole nouveau team.
    Not everyone is kernel developer.
    But nearly everyone who owns the hardware would prefer opensource drivers.
    The majority can contribute by other ways. If you find those ways, outline them clearly and advertise that efficiently directly to hardware card owners, that involves visiting every major OS meeting point, that is supported by your driver, and posting a clear message.
    Then, let the users carry the decision.

    Originally posted by calim View Post
    That was just speaking for myself. I do care about the quality, but I'm restricting myself to working on mesa, so I'll rarely fix the kinds of things that need to be done in the kernel. That's the other guy's job. Unless it affects my card then I can't resist.
    Your team spirit is sure way bugged and waiting for a fix.
    Without team spirit, you can't build a solid house, every wall will be different.

    Originally posted by calim View Post
    Well, sometimes I feel like that. When the userbase tell me I'm spending so much free time on something pointless I get angry at them.
    You should be clear that you spend your time on what you consider to be right for you and nobody can influence that.
    However, even if you do "real job" or "develop nouveau", it doesn't matter - you accept responsibility for exchange of monetary compensation.

    If you do this purely for own enjoyment, please be respectfull to users,.. or at least have some mercy and do NOT drop unstable code upstream.
    And if you lack any motivation to switch hobby to job and unstable to production stable, please ask hardware owners. They are the ones who want stable code, so they help you. Just talk to them.

    Originally posted by calim View Post
    Accepting cards means accepting responsibility to get them working. I'm having a hard time resisting to work on nouveau and focusing on the things I'm *supposed* to be doing already, if I had users' cards lying around pressuring me to fix them that'd be even harder.
    Under no condition should acceptal of hardware be bound to requirement to make it working.
    Perhaps you (or nouveau) should make it clear, that hardware donations form only the hardware park for the team. Nothing else.
    Donations are always free will! But, of course, if the project is NOT moving in perceptable direction, the justification to donate (by smearing the wheels of the project) will fade accordingly.

    If you have "no time", "I have better things to do" etc, which is adult word for "I am lazy", please elaborate on what you need to motivate you.
    Because you either work on it or its left broken. I am sure many many hardware owners at distribution forums WILL support you, but those support IS binding, so be realistic and let users decide if they accept your price.

    Thank you!

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  • wargames
    replied
    Originally posted by brosis View Post
    [B]
    Subliminal message: "We don't code, we don't improve, we don't want to organize anything. We just hang around, breaking stuff for fun. And we like to make fun of AMD developers. Because, they, unlike us, actually write STABLE CODE. We - either write mess, or don't write anything. Hell, we better off watch TV drinkin beers. Linux sucks anyways --.. and not because of us! Rly."
    Resolution: -

    Suggestion:
    Linus - Please REMOVE NOUVEAU out of kernel. Reiserfs is much more worthy of attention than this.
    Distributions - under NO WAY build or include nouveau. Use either VESA or nvidia. This is sure way to immediately kill your userbase with nvidia cards.
    Developers - unless you want to join Nvidia, its much better to join forces who actually CARE about code they write. That means on x86 - Intel or AMD.
    Nvidia users - under NO CIRCUMSTANCE donate your hardware to nouveau. Please, SELL it. At least, you will not waste your money.
    LOL, that was funny


    Originally posted by XorEaxEax View Post
    Bullshit, I've been using Nouveau exclusively for the past 6 months and everything has been running smoothly on both my machines (9600GT/9800GT), including 3d modeling/sculpting in Blender. Obviously I can get better performance of the NVidia binary but Nouveau is certainly 'usable'. .
    I'm sorry, but YOU are full of bullshit. You are using Blender and are probably refusing to use the Cycles rendering engine CUDA acceleration because of what ? code purity ? You need to grow up and realise there are programs distributed in binary form out there. NVIDIA is doing a great job with their driver, to the point it is the only viable solution for GPU acceleration on Linux at the moment.

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  • brent
    replied
    Not anymore - typically, llvmpipe will be used.

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  • Sonadow
    replied
    Originally posted by brent View Post
    calim, to get back to the GT 240 issue - why are you apparently opposed to accepting a workaround? I know that sometimes it's not wise to include hacks, because with a workaround in place there is less pressure to come up with an actual solution. But this has been broken for what now, two years?
    Just out of curiosity, since I don't have any Nvidia hardware; when you pass nouveau.noaccel=1 to the boot command line does it also end up disabling gnome-shell and forcibly reverting the desktop to fallback mode?

    Leave a comment:


  • brent
    replied
    calim, to get back to the GT 240 issue - why are you apparently opposed to accepting a workaround? I know that sometimes it's not wise to include hacks, because with a workaround in place there is less pressure to come up with an actual solution. But this has been broken for what now, two years?

    Leave a comment:


  • calim
    replied
    Originally posted by brosis View Post
    Subliminal message: "We don't care if this driver works at all"
    Resolution: Workaround allows to work around the problem, so people can still work, waiting for a real fix. Ignoring workarounds equals to not caring about anyone who uses the software. Thats a kick in userbase butt.
    The subliminal message was more along the lines of "If it doesn't work, fix it !" I'm trying to get people to contribute but they're awfully resistant. Maybe that's not the right way. But then, if everything worked, who would feel the need to ... and having a workaround lowers the pain and hence the incentive to find a proper fix. NOTE: My opinion, not that of the whole nouveau team.

    Originally posted by brosis View Post
    Subliminal message: "We don't care about quality of this driver at all"
    Resolution: This is as "hobby" as it gets.
    That was just speaking for myself. I do care about the quality, but I'm restricting myself to working on mesa, so I'll rarely fix the kinds of things that need to be done in the kernel. That's the other guy's job. Unless it affects my card then I can't resist.

    Originally posted by brosis View Post
    Subliminal message: "We don't care about Linux user base. They can go to hell."
    Well, sometimes I feel like that. When the userbase tell me I'm spending so much free time on something pointless I get angry at them.

    Originally posted by brosis View Post
    Resolution: If someone refuses even to accept free cards in order to make Linux more attractive to new users, he definately gives a brick about Linux userbase.
    Accepting cards means accepting responsibility to get them working. I'm having a hard time resisting to work on nouveau and focusing on the things I'm *supposed* to be doing already, if I had users' cards lying around pressuring me to fix them that'd be even harder.
    Last edited by calim; 04-24-2013, 06:07 AM.

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  • cbamber85
    replied
    Originally posted by Larian View Post
    I bought Nvidia's hardware and use the vendor's Linux driver because I want the best performance possible. Did I do something bad? (I could swear I paid for all this stuff.)
    I too really don't understand why Nouveau exists as a consumer level driver. If you spent good money on a graphics card, why would you then software cripple it? I understand if you are interested in driver development, or graphics card hardware, but the vast majority of people who use nouveau aren't. So what do you get out of Nouveau? It's open-source you say, but unless you plan on developing using it - why do you give a shit!?

    I can't see the difference between buying a GTX560 Ti and using Nouveau, and buying a high-end i7 and downclocking it.

    Leave a comment:


  • archibald
    replied
    Originally posted by Larian View Post
    I bought Nvidia's hardware and use the vendor's Linux driver because I want the best performance possible. Did I do something bad? (I could swear I paid for all this stuff.)
    Not even slightly: your card = your choice. Other people simply prefer to use open source drivers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kano
    replied
    @brosis

    uvd/vdpau is not fully compatible to current apps - most likely you did not test it yourself. It works somehow with mplayer/vlc (via vdpau-video wrapper with extra symlink), has problems with flash 11.2 (youtube) when ads are played in front of a hd video, does not support deinterlace and does not work with xbmc at all. But basically it will be very interesting when those issues are resolved - especially for apus or older systems with amd hd 4x00 onboard - those do not even work with fglrx with current xservers anymore. It currently works best using mplayer to play progressive content.

    Leave a comment:

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