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  • Originally posted by kgonzales View Post
    People were posting that Linux is designed to give users their freedom, and I said that is crap, people just want something for free that works. They will gladly download Ubuntu and complain that it doesn't make their randomly purchased laptop look good enough compared to Windows which to them was also free since it came with the laptop.

    What if I told you that pre-installed Windows is not free? 0_0

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    • Originally posted by Rigaldo View Post
      What if I told you that pre-installed Windows is not free? 0_0
      While you are technically correct, the reality is that it makes no difference. It comes with most of the desktops or laptops people purchase, and is therefore perceived as free. If I build my own hardware, then yes I need to buy my own copy of Windows and know the costs. But how many people do that? Very few.

      Further, that pre-installed Windows is also configured to work with all the wizz-bang features of the hardware. When someone wipes Windows off the system and replaces it with Linux, they find that not everything "just works". Then Linux sucks to them, and they go back to Windows. Linux is no longer free, because they wasted a bunch of time and effort on it.

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      • Originally posted by kgonzales View Post
        It [Windows license] comes with most of the desktops or laptops people purchase, and is therefore perceived as free.
        If you're stupid... yes.

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        • Originally posted by entropy View Post
          If you're stupid... yes.
          And some wonder why people think the Linux community is full of self-righteous assholes who think they are better than everyone else...

          Its because the so-called Linux community IS full of self-righteous assholes who think they are better than everyone else.

          Thanks for making that clear again to everyone.

          Of course, you can't show me where people can purchase non-Windows bearing hardware which is less expensive than buying a mass-market computer with Windows pre-installed... no, you can only say people are stupid.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by kgonzales View Post
            While you are technically correct, the reality is that it makes no difference. It comes with most of the desktops or laptops people purchase, and is therefore perceived as free. If I build my own hardware, then yes I need to buy my own copy of Windows and know the costs. But how many people do that? Very few.

            Further, that pre-installed Windows is also configured to work with all the wizz-bang features of the hardware. When someone wipes Windows off the system and replaces it with Linux, they find that not everything "just works". Then Linux sucks to them, and they go back to Windows. Linux is no longer free, because they wasted a bunch of time and effort on it.
            I understand what you say, and I guess that in machines with Linux pre-installed, this could be reversed, in a certain degree at least.
            That doesn't necessarily mean that one OS has a disadvantage or advantage over the other, but to the user it might seem like it. For example I might have to tell the Linux kernel that "aspm=force" through the bootloader, but on Windows someone else did it for you(the corresponding tweak) and called it, let's say, "Asus Smart Battery" and tell you it's a software developed by the company that helps make better usage of your hardware. xD
            (I made up the last one randomly to clarify.)
            But how would the user tell? Or care I guess .. :/
            I believe that it will get much better soon though with some things things I'm reading and most things will be able to pretty much just work, even if no-one does it for you(or an OEM at least etc). Hopefully things will indeed go well in this part. Besides, more machines with Ubuntu pre-installed will be available in the next years it seems.

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            • Originally posted by kgonzales View Post
              And some wonder why people think the Linux community is full of self-righteous assholes who think they are better than everyone else...

              Its because the so-called Linux community IS full of self-righteous assholes who think they are better than everyone else.

              Thanks for making that clear again to everyone.

              Of course, you can't show me where people can purchase non-Windows bearing hardware which is less expensive than buying a mass-market computer with Windows pre-installed... no, you can only say people are stupid.


              In EU i have the right to buy any laptop or desktop and return the windows license saving 50eu. And at least these assholes, they take pride from something important.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Rigaldo View Post
                I understand what you say, and I guess that in machines with Linux pre-installed, this could be reversed, in a certain degree at least.
                That doesn't necessarily mean that one OS has a disadvantage or advantage over the other, but to the user it might seem like it. For example I might have to tell the Linux kernel that "aspm=force" through the bootloader, but on Windows someone else did it for you(the corresponding tweak) and called it, let's say, "Asus Smart Battery" and tell you it's a software developed by the company that helps make better usage of your hardware. xD
                (I made up the last one randomly to clarify.)
                But how would the user tell? Or care I guess .. :/
                I believe that it will get much better soon though with some things things I'm reading and most things will be able to pretty much just work, even if no-one does it for you(or an OEM at least etc). Hopefully things will indeed go well in this part. Besides, more machines with Ubuntu pre-installed will be available in the next years it seems.
                Exactly. Companies like System76 do a lot of work to make the process of using Linux on a laptop or desktop "just work". They smooth over many of the rough edges of the OS, in the same way that Asus smooths over Windows installs for users.

                Users don't care. They just want things to work. Honestly that is part of this move to tablets and smartphones. They tend to be much easier to use and straightforward to maintain than a computer, regardless of the OS.

                Some parts of Linux are much more user friendly than before. The oft maligned X.org server, for example, no longer requires the archaic xorg.conf file. In general, it can configure everything dynamically. In other places, tho, like the transition from Gnome 2 to Gnome 3, where numerous functionality regressions were caused in the move and are not yet fixed, users can be very very frustrated. Windows has tended to have fewer of these regressions (tho they screw up too... WinXP to Vista...) and they have many more companies smoothing the rough edges.

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                • Originally posted by artivision View Post
                  In EU i have the right to buy any laptop or desktop and return the windows license saving 50eu. And at least these assholes, they take pride from something important.
                  No they don't . They like being assholes because they have nothing else other than looking down on others, period. They rarely contribute or do anything useful.

                  I have met and worked with people who actually contribute to open source and make it better. They don't act like that. They actually try to understand the issues, fix the problems with the software, and work to make it easier to use and deploy. They don't stick their head in the sand, hide behind silly ideology that open source is always the bestest, and rail against people who use other solutions. No, they ask, "why are people using those solutions, and how can we improve what we are doing to make what we are doing better?"

                  Taking back a Windows license to get your 50 euros back isn't something important. It just reinforces that people want something for free. Asking why most people would prefer NOT to do that, why they would prefer to use Windows or OSX, and working to make Linux something that everyone would actually WANT to use, THAT is important. Hell, even taking that 50 euros of savings and contributing the money to open source projects who you derive benefit from would be better than being some snotty asshole on the internet.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by kgonzales View Post
                    No they don't . They like being assholes because they have nothing else other than looking down on others, period. They rarely contribute or do anything useful.

                    I have met and worked with people who actually contribute to open source and make it better. They don't act like that. They actually try to understand the issues, fix the problems with the software, and work to make it easier to use and deploy. They don't stick their head in the sand, hide behind silly ideology that open source is always the bestest, and rail against people who use other solutions. No, they ask, "why are people using those solutions, and how can we improve what we are doing to make what we are doing better?"

                    Taking back a Windows license to get your 50 euros back isn't something important. It just reinforces that people want something for free. Asking why most people would prefer NOT to do that, why they would prefer to use Windows or OSX, and working to make Linux something that everyone would actually WANT to use, THAT is important. Hell, even taking that 50 euros of savings and contributing the money to open source projects who you derive benefit from would be better than being some snotty asshole on the internet.


                    I understand completely. But you can't get right or good from wrong "tested". So Linux is the only solution.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by kgonzales View Post
                      I don't see how anything you said invalidated anything I said.
                      Are you serious or just trolling?

                      You have stated that "Linux success is due to the fact that you can get it for free." and "Most Linux users (many corporations included) couldn't give a damn that it has great OOTB support for hardware. They like not paying for software, and further like not wasting their time contributing anything back to the so-called community which continues to give them stuff for free without them spending one bit of time or money."

                      This is plain wrong. Any somewhat serious company that has linux kernel as a business component will invest into it, employ kernel devs. This paid devs are major contributors to the kernel. There are serious amounts of money pumped into linux, which clearly contradicts your statements about "get it for free" and "wasting time contributing back".

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