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  • #91
    And now on a serious note, to all involved in the preinstalled Linux discussion, mostly Q:

    I don't think AMD is ignoring any source of revenue, after all they do have the free driver initiative. It's just that there are many times more pirated Windows users then Linux users. I was expecting an answer like "computers with Freedos preinstalled are counted 75% pirated Windows and 25% Linux users, while those with Linux preinstalled are counted 50% pirated Windows and 50% Linux". I asked the question if buying a computer with Freedos preinstalled would help because I was also not excluding the possibility of Freedos being counted 100% pirated Windows. Of course, bridgman doesn't know the exact numbers and even if he did know he wouldn't be allowed to make them public.

    BTW, if you think my percents above are exaggerated let me give you some statistics from the most popular retailer for laptops in my country:

    Total number of laptop models in their offer: 553

    Out those, 269 have Windows preinstalled, 212 have Freedos, 61 have Linux, while 11 have Mac OS X

    Now, their top 10 best selling laptop models list consists of 9 with Freedos and 1 with Linux, while extending this list to top 20 best selling models shows 14 with Freedos, 5 with Linux and 1 with Windows.

    Do you really think that I live in the country where Linux is on almost any laptop? I wish it was so, but I just live in a Eastern European country where pirating Windows is not such a big deal.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Ansla View Post
      And now on a serious note, to all involved in the preinstalled Linux discussion, mostly Q:

      I don't think AMD is ignoring any source of revenue, after all they do have the free driver initiative. It's just that there are many times more pirated Windows users then Linux users. I was expecting an answer like "computers with Freedos preinstalled are counted 75% pirated Windows and 25% Linux users, while those with Linux preinstalled are counted 50% pirated Windows and 50% Linux". I asked the question if buying a computer with Freedos preinstalled would help because I was also not excluding the possibility of Freedos being counted 100% pirated Windows. Of course, bridgman doesn't know the exact numbers and even if he did know he wouldn't be allowed to make them public.

      BTW, if you think my percents above are exaggerated let me give you some statistics from the most popular retailer for laptops in my country:

      Total number of laptop models in their offer: 553

      Out those, 269 have Windows preinstalled, 212 have Freedos, 61 have Linux, while 11 have Mac OS X

      Now, their top 10 best selling laptop models list consists of 9 with Freedos and 1 with Linux, while extending this list to top 20 best selling models shows 14 with Freedos, 5 with Linux and 1 with Windows.

      Do you really think that I live in the country where Linux is on almost any laptop? I wish it was so, but I just live in a Eastern European country where pirating Windows is not such a big deal.
      hey thank you for your writing.
      and what is with the people like bridgman they FORCE them to use windows!
      and he is not the only one i know many more!
      for example: ELSTER (gov-TAX) software in germany 100% windows only and you are FORCED by LAW! or DATEV its the TAX software for the Professionals tax consultants 100% windows. and i know 2 examples the University FORCE them to use WINDOWS to watch there education videos on the University website. and they GIVE a shit about linux or MACOS.

      ok Pirating windows is not ok but FORCING people to use windows is ok ?

      ok back to your tropic i really think the market share of linux overall is much higher than the most people "Think"

      i think its even higher than websites like Wikipedia count it "3,5%"

      in fact linux users are very hard to count because they use windows IE browser fake in Konquorer for example and because: they buy windows hardware and install linux and because they are high skilled they build the hardware by them self and so one and so one.

      in fact the wikipedia 3,5% linux are the LOWEST posible number all REAL numbers are higher than that!
      Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Ansla View Post

        Total number of laptop models in their offer: 553

        Out those, 269 have Windows preinstalled, 212 have Freedos, 61 have Linux, while 11 have Mac OS X
        I love your country.

        Where I am, out of X number of laptop models available for sale, (x-1) models ship with Windows preloaded, with the other 1 model being Apple's Macs. No chance of getting any FreeDOS-loaded or Linux-loaded notebooks.

        And seriously, any experienced PC user will know that OEM-loaded copies of Windows are crap in terms of performance.

        My Acer laptop shipped with a copy of Vista that was so slow and mucked up that UAC takes a full 3 seconds to throw up the prompt. Scrubbed the HDD and loaded the machine with my own store-bought DVD copy of Windows Vista and the performance difference was stark.

        Microsoft should lay down a rule where by no OEM is allowed to mess up the factory image with pointless performance-sapping applications and 'utilities'.
        Last edited by Sonadow; 01-29-2012, 07:50 PM.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
          I love your country.

          Where I am, out of X number of laptop models available for sale, (x-1) models ship with Windows preloaded, with the other 1 model being Apple's Macs. No chance of getting any FreeDOS-loaded or Linux-loaded notebooks.

          And seriously, any experienced PC user will know that OEM-loaded copies of Windows are crap in terms of performance.

          My Acer laptop shipped with a copy of Vista that was so slow and mucked up that UAC takes a full 3 seconds to throw up the prompt. Scrubbed the HDD and loaded the machine with my own store-bought DVD copy of Windows Vista and the performance difference was stark.

          Microsoft should lay down a rule where by no OEM is allowed to mess up the factory image with pointless performance-sapping applications and 'utilities'.
          sure big point... for example i was payed by a customer of my own company to clean pre-installed-OEM-windows. no joke!... i need 3-4 hours per windows7 PC to uninstall the crap.

          this company pay me 1680? (Support flat-rate)per year to do this shit. (YES you read right they pay me more than windows cost them)

          and i call the boss of the company stupid to buy pre installed windows because this burns there Time and my time.
          Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by bridgman View Post
            Hey, this is great. If I ever need something trivialized and taken out of context now I know who to call.

            Q, you really should know better than to post garbage like this. We've PM'ed enough that you know there are a lot of other metrics we look at w.r.t. Linux share and spend. THe original question was "what can influence AMD"... and the weak link in the chain IMO is that we don't get as much "pull" from OEM customers as I would expect based on what I hear from the people who buy their products, and that the pull we do get is entirely for Linux preloads and not systems sold with other OSes but used with Linux.

            That makes it seem like the area that most needs attention if you want to see change.
            i can prove you complete wrong:

            i try to find any linux preinstalled hardware here:

            http://geizhals.at/de/?cat=nb&xf=237...77_11.9#xf_top

            but the cheapest with winodows is 230€

            http://geizhals.at/de/677672
            ASUS Eee PC 1015BX-BLK104S

            and the cheapest with linux:

            http://geizhals.at/de/721458
            Acer Aspire One 722 297,82€


            and the windows one do have 3gb ram less this means you have to upgrade it (for using it with linux)

            http://geizhals.at/de/?cat=ramsoddr3&sort=r

            (3,039/GB)

            3*3=9€

            the overall cost of a windows notebook with the same hardware: 239€

            compared to the linux one: 297,82€


            This prove you complete wrong because: you are a incompetent if you buy the LINUX pre installed hardware because: if you buy the windows hardware and upgrade the ram and install the linux by your own hand you save 60€


            why is amd windows hardware 60€ less expensive than Linux ones?


            in my point of view this 60€ prove: you are a liar!

            read it like this: if you buy windows you can spend 60€ to debian or FSF.,
            Last edited by Qaridarium; 01-30-2012, 02:25 AM.
            Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by bridgman View Post
              I didn't think TurboCore used power states on Linux. I'm not at all sure about that but will ask; my understanding is that the absence of higher power states doesn't mean Turbo Core isn't able to run. I'm not sure how modern PM features like "staying within a power limit", "balancing load between CPU and GPU" interact with the power management subsystems on OSes but AFAIK a good part of this is done in the hardware without OS control.
              On the other hand Turbo Core might still not be working even if this isn't the problem; I guess the core question is whether the bug is really trying to say "Turbo Core doesn't seem to be working" or "I would like to see power state entries for TurboCore frequencies" ?
              cpufreq-info doesn't report frequencies higher than 1.5 GHz, so I think in fact TurboCore doesn't work. Also there is another Llano APU owner with same problem: http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...-and-bechmarks

              Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
              and the cheapest with linux:
              http://geizhals.at/de/721458
              Acer Aspire One 722 297,82?
              I doesn't believe this laptop come with preinstalled Linux or Linux is work fine on this laptop. Just look at list of the problems of this hardware (last time I check information from this page it was true even for latest BIOS). My guess - there is mistake in description.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
                I doesn't believe this laptop come with preinstalled Linux or Linux is work fine on this laptop. Just look at list of the problems of this hardware (last time I check information from this page it was true even for latest BIOS). My guess - there is mistake in description.
                LOL... yes this FAKE OEM Linux shit is just a JOKE! but really this notebook is selled with Linux!

                but imagine: the windows notebook is 60? cheaper and if you spend this 60? on linux support you get a better result than the "OEM-Linux-notebook"

                AND!!! you can send the Microsoft License back to Microsoft in a FUCK of LOVE Letter to get back the 14? of the shitty windows7 home starter license.
                Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                  I love your country.

                  Where I am, out of X number of laptop models available for sale, (x-1) models ship with Windows preloaded, with the other 1 model being Apple's Macs. No chance of getting any FreeDOS-loaded or Linux-loaded notebooks.

                  And seriously, any experienced PC user will know that OEM-loaded copies of Windows are crap in terms of performance.

                  My Acer laptop shipped with a copy of Vista that was so slow and mucked up that UAC takes a full 3 seconds to throw up the prompt. Scrubbed the HDD and loaded the machine with my own store-bought DVD copy of Windows Vista and the performance difference was stark.

                  Microsoft should lay down a rule where by no OEM is allowed to mess up the factory image with pointless performance-sapping applications and 'utilities'.
                  True, it's not bad that I can escape the "Microsoft tax", even if for the wrong reasons. There is one catch though, the models with Freedos and Linux are usually the "cheap crap", it's harder to find one with better hardware without Windows. Generally the rule would be: price less then 500? - almost all come with Freedos/Linux, and as the price of the laptop increases the chances of finding one without Windows decreases.

                  BTW, if you really want to use the OEM Windows license you got with the laptop you can download a clean image of the corresponding version from http://www.mydigitallife.info/64-bit...ownload-links/ and use the key written the Windows sticker on the back of the laptop to activate it... Windows 7 is even available in regular ISOs so it's easier to install.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                    hey thank you for your writing.
                    and what is with the people like bridgman they FORCE them to use windows!
                    and he is not the only one i know many more!
                    for example: ELSTER (gov-TAX) software in germany 100% windows only and you are FORCED by LAW! or DATEV its the TAX software for the Professionals tax consultants 100% windows. and i know 2 examples the University FORCE them to use WINDOWS to watch there education videos on the University website. and they GIVE a shit about linux or MACOS.
                    Even though Apple would probably be a lot worse then Microsoft if they had a monopoly, for now the success of Apple is forcing many websites at least to use HTML5, which is a very good thing for Linux. But for tax software and hardware drivers it will not help much. Though, going from 2 versions to 3 is always easier then from 1 to 2.

                    Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                    ok Pirating windows is not ok but FORCING people to use windows is ok ?
                    When looking for a replacement for my old Eeepc that died last year, the only laptop smaller then 15" with E-350 APU and without Windows preinstalled available in my country was a Lenovo IdeaPad S205 that came with Freedos. While I didn't like the technical specs much I decided to give it a try, after all the store I bought it from offered the possibility to return it within 30 days if I'm not happy with it.
                    The thing that really shocked me was that when I tried to update the BIOS, their website only offered a exe file for Windows. Now, if that was the only problem with it I would have probably called tech support to ask them how I'm supposed to run that exe in Freedos, but there were way to many problems with it so I just returned it to the store.

                    Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                    ok back to your tropic i really think the market share of linux overall is much higher than the most people "Think"

                    i think its even higher than websites like Wikipedia count it "3,5%"

                    in fact linux users are very hard to count because they use windows IE browser fake in Konquorer for example and because: they buy windows hardware and install linux and because they are high skilled they build the hardware by them self and so one and so one.

                    in fact the wikipedia 3,5% linux are the LOWEST posible number all REAL numbers are higher than that!
                    The thing is, if you want bridgman to convince his bosses that the Linux market is really big and more money should be invested in it you need to come up with "irrefutable proof", not speculations that "it must be bigger then this". So far all attempts to come up with this proof have failed. http://linuxcounter.net is the oldest and most successful attempt at this that I'm aware of and yet they only managed to convince 130187 people to register. I don't see how a form on the AMD site could possibly gather more people. And the Linux Counter could easily be extended to gather information about the graphics card and the driver used like it does now for CPU model and kernel version. The only real problem is convincing Linux users to actually register themselves and their machines and install the machine update script.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                      This prove you complete wrong because: you are a incompetent if you buy the LINUX pre installed hardware because: if you buy the windows hardware and upgrade the ram and install the linux by your own hand you save 60?


                      why is amd windows hardware 60? less expensive than Linux ones?


                      in my point of view this 60? prove: you are a liar!

                      read it like this: if you buy windows you can spend 60? to debian or FSF.,
                      This must because there are so few models without Windows available in your country. They are probably considered "luxury" because of their rarity.There is also another flaw in your argument, those models are from different manufacturers, so it's kind of apples to oranges comparison.

                      Here, since almost half of the models don't have Windows preinstalled the difference in price is the one you actually would expect to see, the Freedos/Linux models are about 100? cheaper then similar configuration from the same manufacturer with Windows Home Premium preinstalled.

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