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What Will Happen To xf86-video-nv In 2010?

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  • #41
    Just a quick comment on the "screaming that all we needed were specs" subtopic.

    If you focus on what the developers said, there was no screaming, and their position could be summarized as "so, like, we are going to keep working on the driver anyways but if you gave us some information it would go a lot faster". The developers have been true to their word - we provided information/support and they have used that to push ahead and make remarkable progress on the drivers.

    Where it gets tricky is when the developers comments have been processed a few times by the "collective intelligence of the internet", and developer comments like "given some time we'll make a pretty good driver" turn into "in a couple of weeks the open source driver will be far superior to the binary driver and fglrx will die Die DIE !!!". Those kind of comments led to some unrealistic expectations in the user community, and initial disappointment about how long the work was taking.

    Anyways, bottom line here is that the development community has been very consistent in terms of what they asked for - and if anything their progress has been faster than they originally expected, not slower.
    Last edited by bridgman; 12-12-2009, 01:29 PM.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by bridgman View Post
      Just a quick comment on the "screaming that all we needed were specs" subtopic.

      If you focus on what the developers said, there was no screaming, and their position could be summarized as "so, like, we are going to keep working on the driver anyways but if you gave us some information it would go a lot faster". The developers have been true to their word - we provided information/support and they have used that to push ahead and make remarkable progress on the drivers.

      Where it gets tricky is when the developers comments have been processed a few times by the "collective intelligence of the internet", and developer comments like "given some time we'll make a pretty good driver" turn into "in a couple of weeks the open source driver will be far superior to the binary driver and fglrx will die Die DIE !!!". Those kind of comments led to some unrealistic expectations in the user community, and initial disappointment about how long the work was taking.

      Anyways, bottom line here is that the development community has been very consistent in terms of what they asked for - and if anything their progress has been faster than they originally expected, not slower.
      Of course it would be. These people are finally getting what they wanted. So they work hard to prove that they can use it. And that's probably why they have pretty much exceeded initial expectations.

      I wish my computer came with an ATI card, but it didn't. So, its merely a matter of waiting for the time to buy a new ATI graphics card and putting it into my system. I hold no faith towards nVidia. They don't really care too much for Linux, and the only reason we have a driver is because DreamWorks, Pixar, etc. all use nVidia+Linux for render farms.

      Also, they have always been a little curt and mean to me and a few others I know whenever we have sent emails to them.

      It's like talking to the people at Epic... They just don't like talking to people.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
        the Bio-chemical process of grow up and learning is only 1 function in our brain!

        bain-cells die a baby do have much more brain-cells than a older-human.

        so you only tell me to kill some Brain-cells our of my head.



        o well my head is not so full of cocaine and alcoholic brainwashed to being like you wana me to be.
        OK. I really couldn't constrain myself from repleying anymore, so here I go...

        Dear Qaridarium. Your dick probably can't even get aroused yet. Did know that each time you get an orgasm 10.000 brain cells are grown in your brain? Probably didn't knew that, did you?

        And well it doesn't even fscking matter because humans only use about 3% of all of their brain cells. Except for those who have a photographic memmory, but still not much more than 3%...

        The amount of brain cells doesn't equal how good it functions. It doesn't correlate with intelligence either.

        Now that we are talking about brains... did you know that around the age of twelve, the frontal brain part starts to develop. Yup... not any earlyer than around that age. So that means at about twelve years of age, insight starts to develop. That's not yet the case with your brain as we can clearly notice...

        There is this website called digg.com. You might want to check it out.

        Kind regards,
        V!NCENT
        Last edited by V!NCENT; 12-12-2009, 03:19 PM.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by airlied
          Things happen because ppl want them to happen, if we don't have tearfree video on open source drivers its not because nobody knows how to do it, its because nobody considers it worth doing.
          Except, of course, that you are wrong, unless what you meant was "nobody who would be able to do it considers it worth doing".



          Originally posted by airlied
          For example at Red Hat we can't ship a DVD player with our OS, so why the hell would we invest money in tearfree movie playing? Most Linux users playing movie are playing dodgy legal rips of content from other sources, its not something we get much paying customer demand for at all.
          As a linux user I find that last comment completely out of line. This is the kind of thing I would expect to read from the worst trolls in places like the linuxhater blog, not from an X developer. Interestingly, 'most linux users' is not a category you consider yourself included in. On the other hand, I appreciate the honesty in the first part of the paragraph, and I don't mean it in an ironic way. It's always refreshing to hear from an insider how things work and what drives development; if this was done more often many people would have a more realistic view of what this is about.

          Originally posted by MostAwesomeDude
          Which video codec do you use to encode your video? If it's anything but MJPEG or Theora, it's probably patented in a way that makes it impossible to ship in free distros. Which audio codec? Better hope it's Vorbis, or maybe Speex.

          This has nothing to do with copyright and everything to do with software patents.
          Should we then interpret under a new light bridgman's comments about how GPU offloading of some stages of video playback will possibly be implemented in shaders under Gallium? A Speex-accelerated box is not what was in my mind.

          Originally posted by Saist
          I don't think Desktop use has ever really been a focus of Nvidia's.
          So how do you read the fact that desktop oriented features like video acceleration were implemented by Nvidia in the linux driver? (not only that, but they were also the first ones, and doing a good job at it) Or what about the fact that the most used cards in linux seem to be Nvidia? Or that Nvidia support for newer kernels and X servers is usually implemented rather quickly? (mind you, business users are not the ones constantly upgrading their systems)


          Originally posted by deanjo
          So you hope ATI gets a monopoly. That's real smart isn't it. But saying peace and freedom comes from the extermination of others is not a new concept to your country is it?
          The guy is a pain, but that wasn't the most fortunate of your almost always sharp and interesting comments, Mr Deanjo.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by deanjo View Post
            You really are reaching for straws here. You guys have already accepted vdpau and va-api into the fold. You guys are providing access to the capabilities, what xyz decoder group does with it really isn't of your concern nor holds you liable. It does not matter if you do it through propriatary engines or open standards and solutions such as openCL (no matter if they are less efficient then addressing hw specific solutions as long as they are more efficient then current raw power cpu) providing a desirable end user experience as long as it's a feature that truly can the "make or break" difference. If you want, absolutely go ahead and accelerate things like Theora and Dirac. At least then your providing users with a reasonable alternative but alas no real such effort has been made (except again on nvidia hardware in the case of dirac). If your going to worry about potential illegal uses you might as well get rid of every debugger, every compiler, every piece of hardware support as pretty much every aspect of computing can be used in "illegal" practices.
            Who are "you guys" here? Dave was pointing out that Fedora (alongside Debian and other large distros) doesn't ship non-free codecs. What actually gets accelerated in Gallium doesn't matter, although the distro maintainers have already emphasized that we need to provide compile-time flags to let them turn off the patented stuff.

            I, personally, as an amateur, would not mind implementing all kinds of video codecs, but I have better (read: paid!) things to do, and so does everybody else working on this code, with the possible exception of Younes.

            So, really, if you want this feature, just like with all other features, you can either donate code that makes it happen, or you can wait for somebody to get paid to do it. Until those goddamn patents go away, you can bet on the former.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by deanjo View Post
              Try to play HD content in linux on a laptop with a non-vdpau capable system and then play it on a vdpau system. I dare you to compare the battery life and playback experience. Same goes with HTPC's where efficient quiet cooling is desired where playback of HD content as well as doing a plethora of other tasks such as realtime recording during HD playback. Such a task is well beyond the capability of non accelerated HD playback but is perfectly capable of doing so with a low end dual core (single core if not encoding to HD) and a vdpau card.
              Dude seriously :-) Why would I unplug my laptop from the power supply when seeing a movie? With my power supply plugged in with my core 2 duo cpu, I am completely satisfied with the movie experience.

              What I am more concerned about, is my ability to switch my plasma tv on and off as I want with xrandr.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by phoronix View Post
                - NVIDIA begins contributing basic support for new hardware to the Nouveau driver. This, of course, would be ideal.
                How's that "ideal" ?

                You know what ideal ? Specs !
                This is called "realistic".

                Originally posted by phoronix View Post
                - NVIDIA just outright quits committing any code at all to the xf86-video-nv driver and it goes the way of the XGI Linux driver and others.
                - NVIDIA just provides no open-source contributions at all for new hardware.
                And the difference between those two is ... what exactly ?

                nvidia should stop being assholes and start contributing to nouveau\mesa at fullest and even change their business-model view otherwise it's going down. they already lost their chipset market, from what i heard.

                it's counter-reassuring to hear ati-people saying that they looking at open-source video drivers for their hardware as nvidia-people saying they look at xf86-video-nv (like it little bitch or something for them). BUT they Provide developers with abilities, unlike nvidia.

                Blobs are Must Die as "mustdie" and nouveau is a small step for video industry but huge leap for man-kind in the faces of Free Community, at least.

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                • #48
                  @MostAwesomeDude

                  Debian usually shipped with all needed codecs - only Ubuntu does not ship all needed package by default. That's the extra funny thing with Kubuntu: it has amarok which you could in theory use to play web radio streams but without mp3 support you hear just nothing live (when you don't install the needed package). decss is missing but Debian added a script to the official kaffeine package to install it. The Debian mplayer package contains a script to install win binary codecs (which are usually obsolete when you use mplayer svn, informer mainly needed for newer types of wma).

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by tball View Post
                    Dude seriously :-) Why would I unplug my laptop from the power supply when seeing a movie? With my power supply plugged in with my core 2 duo cpu, I am completely satisfied with the movie experience.

                    What I am more concerned about, is my ability to switch my plasma tv on and off as I want with xrandr.
                    Why would you buy a laptop to have it plugged in all the time. They make desktops / nettops / etc for that which give you more capabilities for a lower price and cost of ownership.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                      If you don't understand sarcasm dude I can't help you.

                      You honestly think my goal with that mail is to get source from nvidia?

                      Dave.

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