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NVIDIA Pushes 62MB Of GSP Binary Firmware Blobs Into Linux-Firmware.Git

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  • #61
    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

    When it comes to being able to mix and match firmware userspace and kernel driver AMD and Intel are in fact ahead.
    The fact is lots of drivers in the kernel have very special needs for firmware files versions. And that includes i915, amdgpu and multiple other drivers, in fact it's a huge mess most people are not even aware about. In Windows it's never been an issue because firmware is part of drivers.

    What you're talking is about is a figment of your imagination. No, AMD and Intel are not ahead. You match kernel releases with firmware releases or all bets are off. Distros do it for you.

    NVIDIA is neither ahead or behind the curve.

    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

    Nvidia run into trouble with Vista again because they did not want to support what Microsoft wanted in API/ABI. Microsoft does change their ABI for graphics drivers and does need to pull Nvidia kicking and screaming into supporting newer version. Yes since party though Windows 10 new drivers for Windows 10 and newer has to be signed by Microsoft and if Nvidia drivers don't update to the new ABI they don't get signed because the driver fails the pre signing audit.
    I would love to have quotes on that, because it all looks like "trust me bro".

    NVIDIA did have issues when Vista was released but that was because Vista had an entirely new graphics stack and driver model. That required almost a complete driver rewrite.

    And outside of the initial "30% of Windows Vista crashes were caused by NVIDIA drivers" issue there's been nothing serious or widespread ever since (try to find anything past 2009), which is weird because Windows 8 and 10 saw major updates to their graphics stacks. And as an NVIDIA user I don't remember any serious issues with Vista either. At the time there was no GeForce Experience and Microsoft didn't push driver updates as actively and as often as they do now.

    It's funny how far NVIDIA haters are willing to go just to show that "NVIDIA is bad". Meanwhile people who buy NVIDIA GPUs just use them. I really don't understand why many want to have a love/hate relationship with companies. It's just stupid. They serve their shareholders, not you.
    Last edited by avis; 10 November 2023, 06:27 AM.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by cl333r View Post

      this is the most blatantly cringe crap I have ever heard of. Countries (their govts) are the biggest criminals in the world by definition. The fact that you're clueless about history and geopolitics is no wonder. The worst ones are the UK and US because both follow the policy of the British Empire - colonialism that portrays itself as fighting against all world's Evil.
      this has literally nothing to do with that, at all as I stated

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      • #63
        Originally posted by avis View Post

        There's no specific this or that. These two firmware files support all the 16XX, 20XX, 30XX, 40XX series GPUs. If you use anything older, nouveau will work just fine without blobs (sans relocking).

        Maxwell and Pascal cards dont support reclocking at this time.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by avis View Post
          And outside of the initial "30% of Windows Vista crashes were caused by NVIDIA drivers" issue there's been nothing serious or widespread ever since (try to find anything past 2009), which is weird because Windows 8 and 10 saw major updates to their graphics stacks. And as an NVIDIA user I don't remember any serious issues with Vista either. At the time there was no GeForce Experience and Microsoft didn't push driver updates as actively and as often as they do now.


          Except what you just wrote if you go looking you find that Nvidia had issues at Windows 8 and 8.1 as well. Microsoft implements the final solution in Windows 10 where to sign drivers Nvidia and any other vendor has to be update on driver ABI support.

          There has been nothing serous or wide spread with Windows since Windows 10 when Microsoft implemented to sign drivers you had to log into a Microsoft portal and do it there and that portal refuses to sign drivers that are not up to date on ABI support.

          Basically it about time you take off the rose colored glasses and see what Microsoft had to-do to get Nvidia to spend the time to keep their drivers ABI support up to date.

          Nvidia and other have been a problem child. There is a problem with the stable ABI idea that even Microsoft run into with Windows. Simple one right you give a stable ABI then driver vendor goes lets take the lazy way out and not update drivers to new versions of the ABI.

          Avis Microsoft issues with Windows Vista, Windows 8, Windows 8.1 start of Windows 10 says problem with stable ABI for drivers idea by the way.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by oiaohm View Post



            Except what you just wrote if you go looking you find that Nvidia had issues at Windows 8 and 8.1 as well. Microsoft implements the final solution in Windows 10 where to sign drivers Nvidia and any other vendor has to be update on driver ABI support.

            There has been nothing serous or wide spread with Windows since Windows 10 when Microsoft implemented to sign drivers you had to log into a Microsoft portal and do it there and that portal refuses to sign drivers that are not up to date on ABI support.

            Basically it about time you take off the rose colored glasses and see what Microsoft had to-do to get Nvidia to spend the time to keep their drivers ABI support up to date.

            Nvidia and other have been a problem child. There is a problem with the stable ABI idea that even Microsoft run into with Windows. Simple one right you give a stable ABI then driver vendor goes lets take the lazy way out and not update drivers to new versions of the ABI.

            Avis Microsoft issues with Windows Vista, Windows 8, Windows 8.1 start of Windows 10 says problem with stable ABI for drivers idea by the way.
            I stopped reading at answers microsoft com. And of course your ton of speculation is not proven by a single reputable resource. And to top it all no GPU vendor has had a spotless record in regard to Windows drivers, full stop.

            Somehow you twist and turn everything just to portray NVIDIA as the worst GPU vendor when their drivers have widely been considered the best over the last two decades in terms of features, completeness, correctness and stability. Their OpenGL implementation was tested against by ISVs, NVIDIA had the best implementation bar none.

            I've owned NVIDIA cards since TNT2, I don't remember a single serious issue outside of the recent four-month fuck-up with flickering which affected Turing users and their 2080 Ti fiasco.

            We are now discussing NVIDIA firmware files for Linux and somehow you still find ways to shit on the company. Why? Does it make you feel better? Do you really believe people carefully read these forums to make purchasing decisions? LMAO. No one ever has. People who buy NVIDIA GPUs and use them under the appropriate OS whose name is Windows normally have nothing to report.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Rovano View Post


              Maxwell and Pascal cards dont support reclocking at this time.
              I'm well aware of that. I'll tell you something: even when nouveau/NVK start supporting newer NVIDIA GPUs well, most NVIDIA Linux users will likely still continue using their proprietary drivers because they have been rock solid. The only reason most AMD users are not using AMDPro is because it's not been hassle free at all and then AFAIK (I can be wrong, I don't remember it well now) it had its own kernel module with which people struggled with and AMD did a very poor job maintaining it.

              NVIDIA on the other hand at most allows itself not to support the newest released kernel for a few weeks. And that's never been a big issue since very few distros use the mainline kernel anyways and those people who do (Arch, Fedora, Gentoo, LFS, etc) can perfectly apply patches to build NVIDIA modules.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by avis View Post
                Nvidia shares a ton of the kernel driver code between Linux, FreeBSD and Windows. AMDPro uses a separate Linux only driver code base.
                You throw "liar" and insults so often at people, please don't get hurt in real life. Oh wait maybe in real life you're a decent person, not what you're here on Phoenix forums.
                I'm appalled you've never been banned here. You denigrate and destroy people.
                I'm quite sad the ignore feature on these forums continue to malfunction. Your truly vile and mean posts stick out like a festering reeking wound.
                yet another lie AMD's PRO driver used the AMDVLK code. the only difference is that the opensource version of AMDVLK use the LLVM compiler and the PRO driver use AMDVLK with a properitary compiler. but even people from amd agree that both LLVM and the properitary compiler is obsolete because ACO compiler from valve is superior.

                Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by avis View Post
                  The only reason most AMD users are not using AMDPro is because it's not been hassle free at all and then AFAIK (I can be wrong, I don't remember it well now) it had its own kernel module with which people struggled with and AMD did a very poor job maintaining it.
                  You may be thinking about fglrx, where we shared substantial driver code between Linux and Windows (and a couple of other OSes). We got a whole lot of flak for sharing driver code across OSes, by the way, and in general our customers seem much happier with a Linux-specific kernel driver.

                  Our packaged drivers (aka AMDGPU-PRO) have always used a copy of the upstream kernel driver with the addition (enablement really) of a Kernel Compatibility Layer which allows one kernel driver to run on a wide range of kernel versions.

                  The packaged drivers are just pre-built copies of upstream drivers built for enterprise distros, since those distros historically picked up new hardware support much more slowly than consumer distros. We do provide install-time options for picking up closed source workstation drivers as well as a core subset of the ROCm stack (option still named opencl, we need to change that).

                  The only differences between packaged all-open drivers and what you get in a typical distro are (a) the KCL I mentioned earlier, along with a DKMS wrapper to build the kernel driver against the distro's kernel headers, and (b) we build AMDVLK rather than RADV.
                  Last edited by bridgman; 10 November 2023, 04:34 PM.
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                  • #69
                    Thanks a lot for the information, bridgman!

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                    • #70


                      Originally posted by avis View Post
                      Somehow you twist and turn everything just to portray NVIDIA as the worst GPU vendor when their drivers have widely been considered the best over the last two decades in terms of features, completeness, correctness and stability. Their OpenGL implementation was tested against by ISVs, NVIDIA had the best implementation bar none.
                      ​Except Valve does not agree with you. glamor in Xwayland not working due to missing implicit sync in opengl with Nvidia is a sign of a bigger problem. Lot of old opengl games don't work with Nvidia because they also depend on implicit sync. This is only tip of iceberg you can dig into other features Nvidia has declared obsolute that old applications need that are in the opengl and vulkan specifications that they no longer support.

                      Nvidia unfortunately has been like how Microsoft was with Internet explorer and html but with Opengl and Vulkan. Yes Nvidia likes to claim tested against ISVs when this just means they are not using the opengl/vulkan conformance test suite like they should and Nvidia chooses not to support older applications and then goes as far as writing guides telling developers that you must do stuff X way or will not work with our drivers even that X way is totally counter to Opengl/Vulkan specifications.

                      Remember distributors like Valve ship old games. Notice how Nvidia says they work with ISVs not software distributors.

                      Originally posted by avis View Post
                      I've owned NVIDIA cards since TNT2, I don't remember a single serious issue outside of the recent four-month fuck-up with flickering which affected Turing users and their 2080 Ti fiasco.
                      I owned a TNT2 as well so you never had the Nvidia kernel painics caused by switching between 2 X11 server or text terminal and X11 server then that been a on going pain until really recently.

                      Originally posted by avis View Post
                      People who buy NVIDIA GPUs and use them under the appropriate OS whose name is Windows normally have nothing to report.
                      This is not true valve has had to give out a lot of game sales refunds because games that use to work don't work after some Nvidia driver update then having to fix that so they can keep on selling the game. Valve ported Zink to Windows to run on Nvidia because Nvidia opengl implementation on Windows has trouble with legacy opengl code bases. Valve has also done custom vulkan layers to apply on top of Nvidia drivers again to fix up sections Nvidia has got wrong on Windows with their driver as well.

                      Distributors like Valve are doing a lot of work to make the Windows experience with Nvidia tolerable for those who want to run older games or games from ISVs who work on AMD or Intel platforms only on Nvidia platforms.

                      It was once valve started working with Intel on Mesa and started seeing the opengl conformance and vulkan conformance suite that they came very aware they were implementing work around after work around so programs work with Nvidia that are caused by Nvidia drivers not being to specification.

                      Nvidia is problem child be it Windows or Linux. There is a problem when a party gets too much market share they start getting the ideas that they can set the rules how ever they like who cares about the effects.

                      Avis Nvidia problems are not locked to just Linux.

                      Something else to consider Avis with AMD you can install multi versions AMDGPU-PRO drivers and run multi applications at the same time all using different user-space versions. Stable ABI from kernel space to userspace allows people using AMD not to have to choose only RADV and AMDVLK for example instead choose both and run applications with what ever one works the best.

                      Nvidia has a long way to go before we can install multi versions of their driver under Linux and run applications using different versions of the user-space.

                      avis you might as well drop the argument that Nvidia users should just run windows because its broken over there as well. You like the works for me argument that is a good way to ignore all the parties who are having major problems with Nvidia because Nvidia drivers don't pass the standard conformance suites and Nvidia playing rough shot. AMD and Intel had to do a lot of work to work out how to correctly support implicit sync on explicit sync so their implementations could pass that section of the opengl conformance suite.

                      avis people with Nvidia are always like if the Linux kernel gave Nvidia stable driver ABI for Nvidia to write drivers that would fix everything. Reality here Nvidia does not have a stable ABI from there firmware to their kernel mode driver and then Nvidia don't have a stable ABI from their kernel mode driver to their userspace. Intel and AMD do in fact maintain a stable ABI in many places. Yes installing AMDGPU-PRO to get the latest AMD kernel driver does not make the distribution installed radv stop working because of Stable kernel to userspace abi so you get away with miss matched versions.

                      Nvidia asking for a stable driver ABI from the Linux kernel is really pot calling kettle black because Nvidia does not provide stable ABI where it should either.
                      Last edited by oiaohm; 10 November 2023, 07:29 PM.

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