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The Maintainer Of The NVIDIA Open-Source "Nouveau" Linux Kernel Driver Resigns

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  • #61
    Originally posted by mos87 View Post

    O_o

    Tops it off with #BLM
    I thought this particular SJW fad has gradually weared off... Not in the Mastodoney corners of the web it seems.
    well as long as they don't try and shove it down my throat I don't care, professionalism necessitates being able to keep views and work separate IMO. I may have strong distaste for the lgbt and blm movements (nothing against the people themselves being part of what the former wrongfully claim to represent), but as long as they are willing to keep an air of professionalism, I have nothing against that. (one of the reasons I hate that crappy contributors code covenant or whatever it's called)

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post

      well as long as they don't try and shove it down my throat I don't care, professionalism necessitates being able to keep views and work separate IMO. I may have strong distaste for the lgbt and blm movements (nothing against the people themselves being part of what the former wrongfully claim to represent), but as long as they are willing to keep an air of professionalism, I have nothing against that. (one of the reasons I hate that crappy contributors code covenant or whatever it's called)
      My thoughts too.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by sophisticles View Post

        From what i understand, Wayland itself does not work properly and Vulkan is still in its infancy.

        I'm not sure these work properly on AMD's proprietary drivers either.
        Wayland is only a protocol.
        Gnomes mutter, kde's kwin, and the wl_roots toolkit have pretty advanced support for wayland. Kde has pretty much declared the entire protocol general use ready.

        Vulkan is stable years ago, has excellent for pretty much all desktop gpu's and all modern android arm gpu's.

        Ever heard of amdvlk or radv?

        ​​

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        • #64
          Originally posted by NeoMorpheus View Post

          Maybe they have the same fanatics that we have here, kissing Dear Leader Jensen's ass, instead of giving him the middle finger and buying AMD, which does care for open source.
          i don't know if they care about open source but I do know that they do not care about having their cards be all they can be.

          Many people either don't know, or don't remember, but Nvidia tried to enter the x86 CPU market years ago. Nvidia used to make x86 chip sets and they felt that the x86 license they had allowed them to make CPU's, Intel disagreed and refused to allow Nvidia to make x86 CPU's.

          Nvidia sued Intel and Intel ended up settling the suit for 1.5 billion dollars payable over 5 years.

          Nvidia took that money and created GPGPU with CUDA and has made a fortune in the HPC and video production markets.

          AMD bought ATI with the intent to compete against Nvidia in those markets but then AMD secured the rights to that superior manufacturing process, that allowed them to pack more cores and more execution units on smaller dies and lower power levels than Intel and AMD has fully embraced the "more cores" approach to CPU design.

          This leaves AMD in an interesting quandary, in order for AMD GPU's to compete against Nvidia GPU's in HPC, they would have to effectively compete against their own high core count Threadripper and EPYC processors that are also competing against Nvidia GPU's. Basically, AMD would be cannibalizing their very lucrative and profitable CPU market by releasing GPU's that can compete against Nvidia's offerings.

          Because of this AMD does not really care about their GPU's being used in HPC and video production and it shows. So you get a pretty good open source driver from them and they also have a proprietary driver for workstation workloads.

          So you can go on all you want about AMD and open source but the reality is that for many workloads, an Nvidia card with closed source drivers is a much better buy, from an initial cost, total cost of ownership and performance standpoint.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Weasel View Post
            Something that can't even query absolute window positions for your hotkeys/macros can't be the future of anything, except of masochists.

            So, keep suffering.
            Nobody cares about your hotkeys/macros that need absolute window positions, Wayland is about making Desktop Linux have a feel more like the one found in MacOS X or Android, so it's more appealing to the average user.

            So, keep ranting.

            Nobody cares.

            X is dead, deal with it.

            ​​​

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            • #66
              Originally posted by sophisticles View Post

              i don't know if they care about open source but I do know that they do not care about having their cards be all they can be.

              Many people either don't know, or don't remember, but Nvidia tried to enter the x86 CPU market years ago. Nvidia used to make x86 chip sets and they felt that the x86 license they had allowed them to make CPU's, Intel disagreed and refused to allow Nvidia to make x86 CPU's.

              Nvidia sued Intel and Intel ended up settling the suit for 1.5 billion dollars payable over 5 years.

              Nvidia took that money and created GPGPU with CUDA and has made a fortune in the HPC and video production markets.

              AMD bought ATI with the intent to compete against Nvidia in those markets but then AMD secured the rights to that superior manufacturing process, that allowed them to pack more cores and more execution units on smaller dies and lower power levels than Intel and AMD has fully embraced the "more cores" approach to CPU design.

              This leaves AMD in an interesting quandary, in order for AMD GPU's to compete against Nvidia GPU's in HPC, they would have to effectively compete against their own high core count Threadripper and EPYC processors that are also competing against Nvidia GPU's. Basically, AMD would be cannibalizing their very lucrative and profitable CPU market by releasing GPU's that can compete against Nvidia's offerings.

              Because of this AMD does not really care about their GPU's being used in HPC and video production and it shows. So you get a pretty good open source driver from them and they also have a proprietary driver for workstation workloads.

              So you can go on all you want about AMD and open source but the reality is that for many workloads, an Nvidia card with closed source drivers is a much better buy, from an initial cost, total cost of ownership and performance standpoint.
              Good info, thanks.

              Even though I dont believe that everything in there is accurate.

              That said, your last part paints the same broad blanket that is addressed by my comment.

              Some people are still locked into CUDA, but even that is changing. The rest is rapidly becoming irrelevant.

              And forgot to add, enjoy being forced to use Windows, if you really want all that proper support from ngreedia.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by frytaped View Post
                RH seems to be really enthusiastic about nouveau...
                https://queer.party/@Lyude/111089178374415532
                Read the discussion thread again.

                AMD and Intel simply refuse to make changes to any subsystem that will allow for Rust DRM drivers to be written and AMD outright NAKs all of Lina's patches to the point Lina just gave up trying.

                Good luck waiting for Rust DRM drivers to amdgpu, i915 and Xe.

                Meanwhile I'll use my Win 11 machine for real work where I don't have to worry about Wayland vs X11 or driver subsystem bickering. Wayland's migration is way too fucking overdue and still nobody wants to get their shit in order. Hell, the distribution I currently use has a Plasma 5.27.4 implementation that completely breaks xdg-portal. Which makes screen sharing utterly impossible on Firefox because FF exclusively uses xdg-portal on Wayland for this. Fucked up my web meeting big time.

                At least with Chromium-based browsers it's still possible to share browser tabs without the use of xdg-portal or pipewire.

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                • #68
                  imagine if nvidia, the largest gpu company, put a little of their billions into developing an official well maintained open source driver (not encrypted firmware deception). would it really hurt them to support linux fully with a driver that is tested properly with the biggest distros? they have the money to afford it. would be a fraction of profit. and they would earn even more money as a result. it would go a long way towards developing Linux gaming. Nvidia could completely change Linux gaming into something incredible if they wanted to. actively ensure games are brought to Linux. a few million spread over say 20 permanent developers with fully open source drivers would completely turn up the competition. they should develop open source features that everyone can use. this goodwill will go much further that they realise. goodwill is better than any advertising.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by kurkosdr View Post
                    Good luck making the average Desktop Linux person understand that the NVIDIA drivers are not some silly serialization code that the manufacturer keeps closed out of spite but are in fact a collection of highly-complex runtimes, I've been trying that for the past 15 years and didn't make any progress

                    Not only is one of those APIs (CUDA) exclusive to Nvidia (read: unique selling point), but Nvidia has a reputation of being the best implementer of the other APIs (OpenGL, DirectX, OpenCL). Why would they give that away to please the whatever percent of the 1.5% of Desktop Linux users that use an Nvidia GPU on Desktop Linux? They won't.

                    Though personally I don't see why ROCm is a joke other than CUDA having a huge installed base due to an early lead (I understand that CUDA's early lead happened due to Nvidia knowing the importance of software, I don't see why ROCm is allegedly a joke based on technical merits).
                    they're not giving anything away their hardware is what makes it work, and they will still be the most optimised and fastest. goodwill in sharing performance increases that work on other brands cards should be something that should be competed for and a point of pride. Sponsored Open APIs will impress customers, this is what would really impress me the most more than any hundred million dollar marketing campaign. And it would cost them very little. opening DLSS to an open standard would not put them in second place at all. they would still be the fastest, it would rather make their standard an industry wide one. the opposite is what they allowed to happen is the open Vulkan standard, which they even use. Its a point of pride to have the API games use. being exclusionary on that tech just makes the API less useful. they will still have the performance lead. AMD and Intel aren't even really competing in the ultra high end anyway, but more the bang for buck. If RTX and DLSS and CUDA and their drivers were were fully open standards, Nvidia would be praised by their competition and the Linux community. they would still have the performance lead, plus goodwill. not sure why they are so adamant about not having Goodwill. If they are so afraid of having RTX/CUDA/DLSS stolen, then why are they not stealing Vulkan, the largest graphics API used on both Xbox Series X and PS5? or OpenCL. they could entirely steal those and then.... nothing. they are open standards which can be used. its the hardware and its performance lead that you cannot steal. what Nvidia and AMD should be worried about is Intel GPUs. When Intel releases their high end GPUs in a few generations, they will seriously push Nvidia and AMD stagnation into high competition. And they will have both CPU and GPU. Nvidia should develop an X86 CPU and get an X86 license if they want to keep up.

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                    • #70
                      but hey, nvidia isnt a gamer company anymore, its now a datacentre server company that also makes GPUs and throws a new bone to us gamers only when the competiton forces them to compete harder

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