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The Maintainer Of The NVIDIA Open-Source "Nouveau" Linux Kernel Driver Resigns

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  • Sonadow
    replied
    Originally posted by frytaped View Post
    RH seems to be really enthusiastic about nouveau...
    https://queer.party/@Lyude/111089178374415532
    Read the discussion thread again.

    AMD and Intel simply refuse to make changes to any subsystem that will allow for Rust DRM drivers to be written and AMD outright NAKs all of Lina's patches to the point Lina just gave up trying.

    Good luck waiting for Rust DRM drivers to amdgpu, i915 and Xe.

    Meanwhile I'll use my Win 11 machine for real work where I don't have to worry about Wayland vs X11 or driver subsystem bickering. Wayland's migration is way too fucking overdue and still nobody wants to get their shit in order. Hell, the distribution I currently use has a Plasma 5.27.4 implementation that completely breaks xdg-portal. Which makes screen sharing utterly impossible on Firefox because FF exclusively uses xdg-portal on Wayland for this. Fucked up my web meeting big time.

    At least with Chromium-based browsers it's still possible to share browser tabs without the use of xdg-portal or pipewire.

    Leave a comment:


  • NeoMorpheus
    replied
    Originally posted by sophisticles View Post

    i don't know if they care about open source but I do know that they do not care about having their cards be all they can be.

    Many people either don't know, or don't remember, but Nvidia tried to enter the x86 CPU market years ago. Nvidia used to make x86 chip sets and they felt that the x86 license they had allowed them to make CPU's, Intel disagreed and refused to allow Nvidia to make x86 CPU's.

    Nvidia sued Intel and Intel ended up settling the suit for 1.5 billion dollars payable over 5 years.

    Nvidia took that money and created GPGPU with CUDA and has made a fortune in the HPC and video production markets.

    AMD bought ATI with the intent to compete against Nvidia in those markets but then AMD secured the rights to that superior manufacturing process, that allowed them to pack more cores and more execution units on smaller dies and lower power levels than Intel and AMD has fully embraced the "more cores" approach to CPU design.

    This leaves AMD in an interesting quandary, in order for AMD GPU's to compete against Nvidia GPU's in HPC, they would have to effectively compete against their own high core count Threadripper and EPYC processors that are also competing against Nvidia GPU's. Basically, AMD would be cannibalizing their very lucrative and profitable CPU market by releasing GPU's that can compete against Nvidia's offerings.

    Because of this AMD does not really care about their GPU's being used in HPC and video production and it shows. So you get a pretty good open source driver from them and they also have a proprietary driver for workstation workloads.

    So you can go on all you want about AMD and open source but the reality is that for many workloads, an Nvidia card with closed source drivers is a much better buy, from an initial cost, total cost of ownership and performance standpoint.
    Good info, thanks.

    Even though I dont believe that everything in there is accurate.

    That said, your last part paints the same broad blanket that is addressed by my comment.

    Some people are still locked into CUDA, but even that is changing. The rest is rapidly becoming irrelevant.

    And forgot to add, enjoy being forced to use Windows, if you really want all that proper support from ngreedia.

    Leave a comment:


  • kurkosdr
    replied
    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
    Something that can't even query absolute window positions for your hotkeys/macros can't be the future of anything, except of masochists.

    So, keep suffering.
    Nobody cares about your hotkeys/macros that need absolute window positions, Wayland is about making Desktop Linux have a feel more like the one found in MacOS X or Android, so it's more appealing to the average user.

    So, keep ranting.

    Nobody cares.

    X is dead, deal with it.

    ​​​

    Leave a comment:


  • sophisticles
    replied
    Originally posted by NeoMorpheus View Post

    Maybe they have the same fanatics that we have here, kissing Dear Leader Jensen's ass, instead of giving him the middle finger and buying AMD, which does care for open source.
    i don't know if they care about open source but I do know that they do not care about having their cards be all they can be.

    Many people either don't know, or don't remember, but Nvidia tried to enter the x86 CPU market years ago. Nvidia used to make x86 chip sets and they felt that the x86 license they had allowed them to make CPU's, Intel disagreed and refused to allow Nvidia to make x86 CPU's.

    Nvidia sued Intel and Intel ended up settling the suit for 1.5 billion dollars payable over 5 years.

    Nvidia took that money and created GPGPU with CUDA and has made a fortune in the HPC and video production markets.

    AMD bought ATI with the intent to compete against Nvidia in those markets but then AMD secured the rights to that superior manufacturing process, that allowed them to pack more cores and more execution units on smaller dies and lower power levels than Intel and AMD has fully embraced the "more cores" approach to CPU design.

    This leaves AMD in an interesting quandary, in order for AMD GPU's to compete against Nvidia GPU's in HPC, they would have to effectively compete against their own high core count Threadripper and EPYC processors that are also competing against Nvidia GPU's. Basically, AMD would be cannibalizing their very lucrative and profitable CPU market by releasing GPU's that can compete against Nvidia's offerings.

    Because of this AMD does not really care about their GPU's being used in HPC and video production and it shows. So you get a pretty good open source driver from them and they also have a proprietary driver for workstation workloads.

    So you can go on all you want about AMD and open source but the reality is that for many workloads, an Nvidia card with closed source drivers is a much better buy, from an initial cost, total cost of ownership and performance standpoint.

    Leave a comment:


  • WiR3D
    replied
    Originally posted by sophisticles View Post

    From what i understand, Wayland itself does not work properly and Vulkan is still in its infancy.

    I'm not sure these work properly on AMD's proprietary drivers either.
    Wayland is only a protocol.
    Gnomes mutter, kde's kwin, and the wl_roots toolkit have pretty advanced support for wayland. Kde has pretty much declared the entire protocol general use ready.

    Vulkan is stable years ago, has excellent for pretty much all desktop gpu's and all modern android arm gpu's.

    Ever heard of amdvlk or radv?

    ​​

    Leave a comment:


  • mos87
    replied
    Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post

    well as long as they don't try and shove it down my throat I don't care, professionalism necessitates being able to keep views and work separate IMO. I may have strong distaste for the lgbt and blm movements (nothing against the people themselves being part of what the former wrongfully claim to represent), but as long as they are willing to keep an air of professionalism, I have nothing against that. (one of the reasons I hate that crappy contributors code covenant or whatever it's called)
    My thoughts too.

    Leave a comment:


  • Quackdoc
    replied
    Originally posted by mos87 View Post

    O_o

    Tops it off with #BLM
    I thought this particular SJW fad has gradually weared off... Not in the Mastodoney corners of the web it seems.
    well as long as they don't try and shove it down my throat I don't care, professionalism necessitates being able to keep views and work separate IMO. I may have strong distaste for the lgbt and blm movements (nothing against the people themselves being part of what the former wrongfully claim to represent), but as long as they are willing to keep an air of professionalism, I have nothing against that. (one of the reasons I hate that crappy contributors code covenant or whatever it's called)

    Leave a comment:


  • nwnk
    replied
    Originally posted by sophisticles View Post
    You are implying that you work for Red Hat, if true then you seem to ignore that Linux on the desktop is a niche OS.
    I'm not implying anything. I've worked for Red Hat for nearly 18 years. I've been the userspace graphics lead for most of that time. I am pretty sure I was on Ben's interview panel.

    I didn't say Linux wasn't niche on the desktop. I said Linux would be niche everywhere without the desktop.

    Originally posted by Nori View Post
    So why undermine a well-functioning Nvidia blob with an unfinished Wayland where it doesn't work?


    Speaking as the guy who kept your X server working for most of those 18 years: because X11 is no longer fit for purpose. RHEL9 still has Xorg and is going to get new hardware enablement for another (checks) four years or so, and (anecdotally) many VFX shops are just now moving to RHEL8, so anyone who seriously needs the Serious NVIDIA Workstation Features has a runway before they have to panic. In the meantime we desperately need to cut bait, because maintaining two display servers is unsustainable, particularly when one of the display servers would only be kept to enable a driver we can't fix.

    Leave a comment:


  • sophisticles
    replied
    Originally posted by nwnk View Post

    Because we believe in open software, as a philosophy and as a strategy. We invest in Linux's future, because we don't have a future without it. It's no exaggeration to say that none of this conversation would be happening if Linux wasn't The platform for OpenGL. People are going to buy NVIDIA hardware for that, and we can't support hardware we can't drive ourselves, so we need something open and credible.

    You don't have to like my employer, its parent company, or our products - believe me, I'm right there with you some days - but our motivations really are pretty transparent. We don't do closed drivers because we can't fix them, and if we can't fix them we can't support you. We don't do out-of-tree drivers because the whole point is to get them upstream so everyone keeps them stable and everyone wins, because we are a big part of that everyone. We work on the desktop because without that Linux is a niche OS, competing with QNX and NetWare instead of WIndows and macOS, and that means nobody knows how to use it or develop for it and that means we don't have a talent pool to hire from, or, like, customers.
    You are implying that you work for Red Hat, if true then you seem to ignore that Linux on the desktop is a niche OS.

    As for why people buy NVIDIA hardware, it's not because of OGL, gamers buy it for the DX support, HPC users buy it for CUDA and video professionals buy it for NVENC and CUDA.

    None of these is supported by the open source driver.

    Trust me, Nouveau could go the way of the Dodo, Red Hat could go the way of the Dodo, Linux could go closed source and people would still use Linux+Nvidia without giving it a second thought.

    Leave a comment:


  • sophisticles
    replied
    Originally posted by ac130kz View Post

    This is so funny, neither Wayland, dmabuf nor Vulkan work properly at this moment on Nvidia proprietary drivers
    From what i understand, Wayland itself does not work properly and Vulkan is still in its infancy.

    I'm not sure these work properly on AMD's proprietary drivers either.

    Leave a comment:

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