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  • creative
    replied
    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

    I pointed to gamescope for a reason. Thing about gamescope it does not need Wayland to be feature complete to meet its objectives. Gamescope is after wayland isolation property. So you have a old game that does some horrible X11 protocol stuff possible stuff that been removed for security reasons. Gamescope can put that back on a per application using a custom Xwayland X11 server of course since its know broken you want this sandboxed to hell this is where wayland being designed for security is good.



    This is not exactly being aware. There is a difference between Wayland being good enough to replace your desktop envornment completely and you need wayland because some software is behind something like gamescope that you need that will not work on modern day X11 servers for some reason. Either the software is wayland only or the software is something using legacy/removed X11 interfaces.

    The bread and butter stuff happens to be about complete desktop replacement case. The application compatibility case wayland is feature complete enough now for that to start happening more and more.

    Yes there are people running games they have bought on steam that are in fact running by gamescope under Linux and they are not having issues on AMD and Intel yet people are having issues on Nvidia. Yes they are like you using X11 desktop.

    Wayland is not isolated to the complete desktop case. Wayland solutions are stack-able this includes stacking on top of X11

    The trap here is "Until its as replete as X11" is not when Wayland risks appearing on your desktop like it or not. Needing something wayland to work is a risk you have today. Choice of running X11 bare metal server with X11 desktop does not change this.

    Wayland is going to effect lot of users before its the default new standard as it progressively sneaks in with items like gamescope.

    creative see the problem your idea does not align with how wayland is being progressively deployed.

    There can be a major turning point some point in future for you even if wayland stopped improving in features right now. Remember gamescope and others allows pure wayland applications to work on X11. So it possible that some application you depend on to be released wayland only so forcing you to use gamescope or equal as well if you want to remain on X11. Of course gamescope and others to work under X11 still needs your graphics drivers to be in design Wayland compatible.
    I don't use gamescope.

    No I am absolutely aware. Until it is installed by default, who the feck cares.

    People are still complaining about RDNA2 gpu's running dx11 and earlier games like shit.

    When I had a 6800XT there were quite a few games it ran like shit in both linux and windows, AMD has not made good enough drivers to keep their clocks up to run a lot of directx 11 games and earlier with what I would call competent performance fluidity. I have literally zero issues with the 66 games I have installed with my RTX 3070, that's none! Also every game I own for that matter a whole 180 total have had zero issues with my NVIDIA cards, literally none of them. NONE! Do you get that that?

    oiaohm Are you getting that into your head that I have had literally zero issues with my NVIDIA GPU's with every game I have? Do you understand? NVIDIA does have a few drivers that suck, I dont' use those. NVIDIA 510 series are completely fine on my end, the 515 are fine as well except for the native SOTTR port, which is a bad port in my opinion its always had some kind of weird issue.....fine in windows though.
    Last edited by creative; 14 August 2022, 04:45 AM.

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  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by creative View Post
    From what I understand Wayland is far from being ready with a lot of annoyances, has taken years to develop and still has a lot of bread and butter stuff that needs to be put in.
    I pointed to gamescope for a reason. Thing about gamescope it does not need Wayland to be feature complete to meet its objectives. Gamescope is after wayland isolation property. So you have a old game that does some horrible X11 protocol stuff possible stuff that been removed for security reasons. Gamescope can put that back on a per application using a custom Xwayland X11 server of course since its know broken you want this sandboxed to hell this is where wayland being designed for security is good.

    Originally posted by creative View Post
    Until its as replete as X11 and the new standard I'm not even going to begin to care.
    This is not exactly being aware. There is a difference between Wayland being good enough to replace your desktop envornment completely and you need wayland because some software is behind something like gamescope that you need that will not work on modern day X11 servers for some reason. Either the software is wayland only or the software is something using legacy/removed X11 interfaces.

    The bread and butter stuff happens to be about complete desktop replacement case. The application compatibility case wayland is feature complete enough now for that to start happening more and more.

    Yes there are people running games they have bought on steam that are in fact running by gamescope under Linux and they are not having issues on AMD and Intel yet people are having issues on Nvidia. Yes they are like you using X11 desktop.

    Wayland is not isolated to the complete desktop case. Wayland solutions are stack-able this includes stacking on top of X11

    The trap here is "Until its as replete as X11" is not when Wayland risks appearing on your desktop like it or not. Needing something wayland to work is a risk you have today. Choice of running X11 bare metal server with X11 desktop does not change this.

    Wayland is going to effect lot of users before its the default new standard as it progressively sneaks in with items like gamescope.

    creative see the problem your idea does not align with how wayland is being progressively deployed.

    There can be a major turning point some point in future for you even if wayland stopped improving in features right now. Remember gamescope and others allows pure wayland applications to work on X11. So it possible that some application you depend on to be released wayland only so forcing you to use gamescope or equal as well if you want to remain on X11. Of course gamescope and others to work under X11 still needs your graphics drivers to be in design Wayland compatible.

    Leave a comment:


  • creative
    replied
    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

    The bad news this is not as simple as one would hope. https://github.com/Plagman/gamescope

    The reality is horrible that even if you never want to change your primary from X11 to Wayland you can still find yourself stuck needing wayland so stuff works. Some legacy games steam you need gamescope to upscale them to usable output. Yes when you use gamescope you use Wayland.

    So depending on what games and software you are using how critical Wayland support is. Lot of people are like you who say they don't give a shit about wayland then one day they do something and run into the Wayland problem. The wayland problem is out their waiting for you and you might or you might not find it before it properly fixed up.

    So everyone need functional wayland support not to be playing loto all the time. Reason to maintain pressure on nvidia to get their Wayland house in order.
    I probably made a few annoyed posts in this comment section, no you have a point. From what I understand Wayland is far from being ready with a lot of annoyances, has taken years to develop and still has a lot of bread and butter stuff that needs to be put in.

    Until its as replete as X11 and the new standard I'm not even going to begin to care.
    Last edited by creative; 13 August 2022, 06:58 AM.

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  • creative
    replied
    Originally posted by timofonic View Post

    You sound like a PR stunt, it's funny to me.

    I highly doubt the Nvidia situation is going to be eternal. The problem aren't buggy drivers, but buggy games that require driver workarounds. Nvidia has a lot more experience and "networking" (as Intel, they do corrupt methodologies), but that may change soon.

    I hope Intel and somewhere else succeeding at competing this Nvidia-AMD dGPU doupoly, anyway. Even games are becoming worse due to this, with infinite sequels and copycats everywhere. Intel Arc dGPU seems probable to disappear and get canceled, unfortunately.
    I don't know what you are talking about, just speaking from experience. If you have a favorite game and the gpu you bought doesn't run it well then whats the point of spending all that money?

    You can't argue with that. Piss off.
    Last edited by creative; 13 August 2022, 02:13 PM.

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  • toughy
    replied
    To be clear the headers NVIDIA released are a very small step in helping the nouveau project with reverse engineering. Strangely, reverse engineering is not the blocking point for the project, although it is still difficult for sure.

    But it is a small step in the right direction, maybe NVIDIA can do more if they keep going open.

    Leave a comment:


  • toughy
    replied
    It is good to see Phoronix mention the real problem of missing the signed PMU firmware for re-clocking.

    I wish I could understand why NVIDIA has to cripple the performance of the open-source driver. What features do they want to lock out using drivers ? GPU virtualization ? 10-bit color ? FP64 double-precision floating point ?

    It's sad how consumers still do not value open source, after so many DRM issues in games, closed ecosystems like Apple blatantly infringing right to repair, pushing endless ads on user devices, Windows abusively deleting Linux partitions or boot entry during updates, or Microsoft trying to force their default browser in Windows 11...

    Leave a comment:


  • timofonic
    replied
    Originally posted by creative View Post

    Meanwhile all those with AMD GPU's that love Dishonored 2 get glitched out oceans and really poor performance. Support for that game has yet to be improved, even my GTX 1070 wiped the floor with how fluid it ran that game. My RTX 3070 makes the Dishonored 2 experience sublime. I see 6800XT and 6900XT owners posting their woes with that game and others. Oh and the 5700xt is not that much better off in that game.

    I am going to be quite honest, I am glad the 6800xt I had suddenly croaked. It absolutely destroyed Shadow Of The Tomb Raider beyond imagination with incredible performance that was off the scale insane. AMD GPU's are outlandishly powerful, I hope their game support and drivers get better.

    At the end of the day I still wish I had an AMD GPU but their support across API's and games still isn't good enough. I have an incredibly expansive and varied steam library, NVIDIA does not disappoint, it simply runs all of my games very very well, and I am willing to bet it's only going to get better.
    You sound like a PR stunt, it's funny to me.

    I highly doubt the Nvidia situation is going to be eternal. The problem aren't buggy drivers, but buggy games that require driver workarounds. Nvidia has a lot more experience and "networking" (as Intel, they do corrupt methodologies), but that may change soon.

    I hope Intel and somewhere else succeeding at competing this Nvidia-AMD dGPU doupoly, anyway. Even games are becoming worse due to this, with infinite sequels and copycats everywhere. Intel Arc dGPU seems probable to disappear and get canceled, unfortunately.
    Last edited by timofonic; 13 August 2022, 05:34 AM.

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  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by creative View Post
    I wish everyone would stfu about wayland. Some of us out there don't give a shit about wayland. OBTW fuck Wayland!
    The bad news this is not as simple as one would hope. https://github.com/Plagman/gamescope

    The reality is horrible that even if you never want to change your primary from X11 to Wayland you can still find yourself stuck needing wayland so stuff works. Some legacy games steam you need gamescope to upscale them to usable output. Yes when you use gamescope you use Wayland.

    So depending on what games and software you are using how critical Wayland support is. Lot of people are like you who say they don't give a shit about wayland then one day they do something and run into the Wayland problem. The wayland problem is out their waiting for you and you might or you might not find it before it properly fixed up.

    So everyone need functional wayland support not to be playing loto all the time. Reason to maintain pressure on nvidia to get their Wayland house in order.

    Leave a comment:


  • creative
    replied
    I wish everyone would stfu about wayland. Some of us out there don't give a shit about wayland. OBTW fuck Wayland!

    Leave a comment:


  • creative
    replied
    Originally posted by timofonic View Post
    I don't hate Nvidia, I dislike and not appreciate it at all. The rest arent much better, but provide cleaner open source driver alternatives at least..

    I'm not going to touch Nvidia hardware nor provide it to my clients, I'm not that evil. Sorry.
    Meanwhile all those with AMD GPU's that love Dishonored 2 get glitched out oceans and really poor performance. Support for that game has yet to be improved, even my GTX 1070 wiped the floor with how fluid it ran that game. My RTX 3070 makes the Dishonored 2 experience sublime. I see 6800XT and 6900XT owners posting their woes with that game and others. Oh and the 5700xt is not that much better off in that game.

    I am going to be quite honest, I am glad the 6800xt I had suddenly croaked. It absolutely destroyed Shadow Of The Tomb Raider beyond imagination with incredible performance that was off the scale insane. AMD GPU's are outlandishly powerful, I hope their game support and drivers get better.

    At the end of the day I still wish I had an AMD GPU but their support across API's and games still isn't good enough. I have an incredibly expansive and varied steam library, NVIDIA does not disappoint, it simply runs all of my games very very well, and I am willing to bet it's only going to get better.
    Last edited by creative; 13 August 2022, 02:27 AM.

    Leave a comment:

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