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NVIDIA Posts Open-Source DRM Kernel Driver For NVDLA

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  • #11
    Originally posted by bple2137 View Post
    It doesn't affect any desktop hardware, does it?

    INB4 you should be using Windows
    No, it doesn't. And you should be using whatever you like.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by cytomax55 View Post
      Weird all this open source stuff from nVidia after The Lapsus$ Hacking Group released their code... coincidence???
      Highly suspicious...

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      • #13
        Shrugs, for my next graphics card, I'm still going to by an Intel.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by sinepgib View Post

          Aside from the firmware issues mentioned by Developer12, you would get a driver no legitimate distribution can ship because it's a copyright infringement. You need clean room reverse engineering for proper open source implementations, there's no way around that. That's also why Lapsu$' leak doesn't really matter. At most you can get some counterfeit patched version which will most likely be closed source (that scene tend to prefer keeping things closed for bragging rights or something) and may or may not contain back doors. The competition can't use it because the copyright infringement would be blatant and they risk getting sued and losing and the same applies to Mesa trying to improve Nouveau by studying or modifying that code.
          Ok I already know that copying it will of course infringe some laws. My question was more in the sense of : the leaked code exposes how the driver works - this does not mean a 1:1 reengineered version is the only solution. If BMW is building a Car it is not per se a reverse engineered Maserati or vice versa. Both use Petrol engines have 4 wheels and a gearbox. That is a very simplified version of the issue.
          But may point out that the idea is nouveau could get "inspired" by the leaked code.
          (the signed firmware thing is still not solved by the proposal)
          Last edited by CochainComplex; 20 April 2022, 04:42 AM.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by CochainComplex View Post

            Ok I already know that copying it will of course infringe some laws. My question was more in the sense of : the leaked code exposes how the driver works - this does not mean a 1:1 reengineered version is the only solution. If BMW is building a Car it is not per se a reverse engineered Maserati or vice versa. Both use Petrol engines have 4 wheels and a gearbox. That is a very simplified version of the issue.
            But may point out that the idea that nouveau could get "inspired" by the leaked code.
            (the signed firmware thing is still not solved by the proposal)
            The only way to do this would be for an independent individual or team to create specifications from the code and publish those. Nobody who worked in that process would be able to safely work on Nouveau without risk of being sued. There has to be separation.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by CochainComplex View Post

              Ok I already know that copying it will of course infringe some laws. My question was more in the sense of : the leaked code exposes how the driver works - this does not mean a 1:1 reengineered version is the only solution. If BMW is building a Car it is not per se a reverse engineered Maserati or vice versa. Both use Petrol engines have 4 wheels and a gearbox. That is a very simplified version of the issue.
              But may point out that the idea is nouveau could get "inspired" by the leaked code.
              (the signed firmware thing is still not solved by the proposal)
              The problem is that its naturally practically impossible to reverse engineer the current NVidia driver because its signed (in other words its encrypted) and as said before the firmware only accepts drivers that are signed. So unless someone manages to somehow break modern crypto, NVidia in any court room can very reasonable claim that the reverse engineered effort took IP from the leak because its otherwise not possible.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post

                The problem is that its naturally practically impossible to reverse engineer the current NVidia driver because its signed (in other words its encrypted) and as said before the firmware only accepts drivers that are signed. So unless someone manages to somehow break modern crypto, NVidia in any court room can very reasonable claim that the reverse engineered effort took IP from the leak because its otherwise not possible.
                i think you confused firmware with the driver there. there is absolutely no problem reversing nvidia driver, the firmware is signed. nouveau team just doesn't want to extract the firmware from the driver because that particular task became quite difficult recently, and given nvidia's relative frequency of driver drops, they don't want to redo this process every driver release.

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                • #18
                  It should also be worth mentioning that the nvdla coprocessor can be found in the VisionFive board

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by CochainComplex View Post

                    Ok I already know that copying it will of course infringe some laws. My question was more in the sense of : the leaked code exposes how the driver works - this does not mean a 1:1 reengineered version is the only solution. If BMW is building a Car it is not per se a reverse engineered Maserati or vice versa. Both use Petrol engines have 4 wheels and a gearbox. That is a very simplified version of the issue.
                    But may point out that the idea is nouveau could get "inspired" by the leaked code.
                    (the signed firmware thing is still not solved by the proposal)
                    "Inspiration" is already infringement, that's the problem. The moment anyone can prove a developer read the source code the whole project gets tainted. It happened to ReactOS, they had to spend years auditing to make sure none of it was a result from reading the Windows' sources that abound.
                    s_j_newbury mentions a way, but I'm not entirely sure how far you can get without being sued anyway, considering even downloading that source code constitutes infringement.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by cytomax55 View Post
                      Weird all this open source stuff from nVidia after The Lapsus$ Hacking Group released their code... coincidence???
                      Nvidia announced NVDLA as an open source hardware project at least as far back as 2018. It's their intention that other hardware vendors adopt this processing model, to the extent that they've provided Verilog, C-model, test suites, and an open source compiler as far back as 2019.

                      https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/nvdla/

                      Their goal is for it to become the de facto standard in IoT. They don't plan on playing in that space, but if IoT users adopt it, Nvidia seems to anticipate up-market advantages in their bigger SoCs and training systems.

                      So, no. You're jumping to conclusions. Try doing a little more digging, first.
                      Last edited by coder; 24 April 2022, 10:53 AM.

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