NVIDIA Publishes Signed Ampere Firmware To Finally Allow Accelerated Open-Source Support

[Developer12]

1. It's called exaggeration, it drives the point home.
2. 20/5 distros is still _a lot_ to support. Compare that with simply two other major OSes (yes, the BSDs are supported somewhat too, but that's beyond the point).
3. You wish changing the package manager was the only relevant difference, but it isn't, not even close. Userspace library versions, kernel versions, kernel flags, etc. All have to be verified, all have to be developed for, it's non-trivial work.
4. Not only you have many distros, but most also have a really fast pace between releases compared to Windows and MacOS. Both Windows and MacOS do release updates, but they do so without breaking driver compatibility, while Linux breaks it. Which, in practice, is equivalent to supporting many more targets.
5. Yes, Snap/Flatpak solve the libraries and packaging part (in a half-assed way, but it still counts), but they still run the same gazillion kernels, and for a kernel driver that's obviously still a big issue.

# 4 is fundamentally wrong. Any drivers that are in-tree are converted over as part of any patchset. Any that are broken are out of tree and linux doesn't give a fuck about those. The upstream kernel devs will break them with glee.

[Rabiator]

I think that only GPU driver model changed in these major versions of windos. The rest of the drivers were compatible.

You may be right, but that still does not help with driver signing. Since Windows Vista Microsoft requires signed drivers, and the technical details were changed again with Windows 10. A hardware maker with closed source drivers would at a minimum have to re-sign them for the new OS version.
Old hardware the maker does not care about anymore? Tough luck. BTW, on Windows AMD tends to drop support faster than Nvidia. In the closed source Windows world, Nvidia is a much better choice than under Linux.

[sinepgib]

# 4 is fundamentally wrong. Any drivers that are in-tree are converted over as part of any patchset. Any that are broken are out of tree and linux doesn't give a fuck about those. The upstream kernel devs will break them with glee.

There's a thing called premise. We're talking about an out of tree driver, so I don't need to cover the case for in-tree drivers.

[qarium]

1. It's called exaggeration, it drives the point home.
2. 20/5 distros is still _a lot_ to support. Compare that with simply two other major OSes (yes, the BSDs are supported somewhat too, but that's beyond the point).

as soon as you have hardware with upsteam support like AMD GPUs... you just don't care about what of these 5 relevant distros you use... they all work. i did run debian like distro for like 17 years and now fedora and my "AMD GPU" hardware just runs.

in the past i had nvidia gpu hardware and it did break all the time because of kernel update and the closed source nvidia driver was incompatible with the new upsteam kernel.

3. You wish changing the package manager was the only relevant difference, but it isn't, not even close. Userspace library versions, kernel versions, kernel flags, etc. All have to be verified, all have to be developed for, it's non-trivial work.
4. Not only you have many distros, but most also have a really fast pace between releases compared to Windows and MacOS. Both Windows and MacOS do release updates, but they do so without breaking driver compatibility, while Linux breaks it. Which, in practice, is equivalent to supporting many more targets.

it breaks only for nvidia hardware as soon as you have hardware supported by upstream like AMD GPUs you run whatever kernel versiond and whatever mesa version it will always work and run.

but as soon as you run nvidia hardware of course the linux will break driver compatibility with nvidia hardware.

BUT YES LINUX WITH CLOSED SOURCE DRIVERS LIKE NVIDIA IS A COMPLETE NIGHTMARE... OF COURSE...

5. Yes, Snap/Flatpak solve the libraries and packaging part (in a half-assed way, but it still counts), but they still run the same gazillion kernels, and for a kernel driver that's obviously still a big issue.

I HAD NVIDIA HARDWARE IN THE PAST TO... I SOLVED THE """BIG ISSUE""" BY DROPING THE NVIDIA HARDWARE AND BOUGHT HARDWARE WITH OPENSOURCE AND UPSTREAM DRIVERS...

birdie claims linux is the problem... wrong nvidia is the problem.

as soon as nvidia goes bankrupt all the linux problems with driver support will magically go away.

[imirkin]

imirkin Does this new signed firmware only permit gpu acceleration (ie, gpu context switching and similar functionality) or does it also provide the ability to reclock cards for reasonable performance?

(I'm referencing your explanations here: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gamin...xactly_nvidia/)

This is the gr context switching firmware, which allows accelerated switching of graphics contexts (without which accel is effectively impossible), as well as the firmware required to load that firmware (the secure firmware loading requires jumping through some hoops, and those hoops require firmware themselves).

This does not include PMU firmware, which would allow interacting with power management functions. Such functions would be required to change core/memory clock frequencies from the lowest levels.

[qarium]

I think that only GPU driver model changed in these major versions of windos. The rest of the drivers were compatible.

there was a creative sound plaster soundcard problem between windows XP and vista/7...
microsoft did block the direct hardware access and forced them to use the windows sound driver api instead.

that was the point why creative started cound plaster hardware support in linux becausen for them this move was like sapotaging their hardware on vista and windows 7...

[ATFx]

It's great to see More Then Nothing from Nvidia.
Being proprietary is costing them a lot of business to AMD.
Intel needs to redo their hardware architecture they continue to present in
different forms with special limitations features and new security vulnerabilities.
I believe the best hardware manufacture is AMD, better then Intel and Nvidia combined
in hardware and software situation.

[sinepgib]

as soon as you have hardware with upsteam support like AMD GPUs... you just don't care about what of these 5 relevant distros you use... they all work. i did run debian like distro for like 17 years and now fedora and my "AMD GPU" hardware just runs.

in the past i had nvidia gpu hardware and it did break all the time because of kernel update and the closed source nvidia driver was incompatible with the new upsteam kernel.

I agree, I've been there too. I'm not your enemy dude, chill out.

it breaks only for nvidia hardware as soon as you have hardware supported by upstream like AMD GPUs you run whatever kernel versiond and whatever mesa version it will always work and run.

but as soon as you run nvidia hardware of course the linux will break driver compatibility with nvidia hardware.

Yes, because nvidia is out of tree. OpenZFS has the same problem and it's open source.

BUT YES LINUX WITH CLOSED SOURCE DRIVERS LIKE NVIDIA IS A COMPLETE NIGHTMARE... OF COURSE...

Yes, it is. And it is because Linux doesn't have stable interfaces. That is a fact, not a judgement. When you design software (and licenses, for what matters) you make compromises. Compromising to a stable interface will make out of tree development easier (good) but will introduce bloat (you need to keep the older interfaces around, bad), maintenance burden (ditto, bad) and slow down innovation (you have to be much more careful with internal redesigns, bad).
Adding up that prioritizing making life easier for closed source software when you're the one getting bug reports for things you have no source code to debug, it makes sense that they make that choice. But that doesn't change the fact that both parties made decisions that lead to this. nvidia chose not to open their drivers, they probably have their reasons, and Linux chose a model that is more efficient and allows for faster innovation but comes with fragmentation and extra downstream work as a price.

I HAD NVIDIA HARDWARE IN THE PAST TO... I SOLVED THE """BIG ISSUE""" BY DROPING THE NVIDIA HARDWARE AND BOUGHT HARDWARE WITH OPENSOURCE AND UPSTREAM DRIVERS...

Considering the big issue is an issue for nvidia I conclude that you neither solved it nor understood what I wrote.

birdie claims linux is the problem... wrong nvidia is the problem.

I'm not sure there is a problem really. There's a situation. The situation is nvidia cards are supported (good) but their support is not open source (bad, depending on who you ask). But given they won't open their driver and Linux won't keep stable interfaces (and some distros will be hostile to blobs, which BTW they're in their whole damn right to be) it will most of the time be subpar for regular users. But it does take two to tango, if either would concede, then drivers would work. The price on Linux would be too high, so I find that undesirable.

as soon as nvidia goes bankrupt all the linux problems with driver support will magically go away.

All the hardware that's lying around will remain unsupported, so no, it solves exactly 0 problems.

[sinepgib]

Being proprietary is costing them a lot of business to AMD.

Define "a lot". I'm not sure we (desktop users who'd rather use the competition's cards due to them providing open drivers) constitute a relevant market segment really.
It looks to me like the extra sales they could get won't make up for the legal and possible technical investment it requires to provide an open driver. And probably it looks like that to them as well, judging by their actions.
Not only that, but there's probably a hidden cost with all this crypto bullshit if we know too much about their cards functioning. Only the unlocking would probably make them lose more money than they would gain from us buying their products.
Just like us, they're taking care of their own profit first, they're a for profit company after all.

[ATFx]

Define "a lot". Just like us, they're taking care of their own profit first, they're a for profit company after all.

Yes, they go by what successful are doing, they are only stepping up open source support because
of AMD annihilating them in hardware, providing Open Source drivers to other Businesses.
Who prefer or have to have control of their own hardware to a source extent for their own products/services.
Data Centers and Supercomputers of any kind prefer it most for scalability.
Think of all of the Customers Enterprise or not that did not have Access to a Viable Alternative
for that because Intel wasn't making Graphics Cards.
AMD had terrible Proprietary Drivers and Graphics Hardware that made a terrible confliction for a Good choice.
Intel realizes the opportunity AMD is taking Advantage of, Nvidia sees both and says o ****
I'm pretty screwed being the oddball in what I offer I can't get away with anymore I'm going to Lose all of mine
If I don't change in that regard.