New NVIDIA Open-Source Linux Kernel Graphics Driver Appears

[yump]

This. Right here. This shows you didn't read the comment you were quoting at all.

You may have missed the word "tainted." If you read the leaked source code you are tainted. You have ideas in your head that came from leaked source and do not belong to you. Any code you write for nouveau is arguably a derivative work, and argue nvidia's lawyers will. Any contribution you give without their approval is flatly and completely illegal.

That's what everyone always says. But if it were true, wouldn't that make it effectively illegal for computer programmers to change jobs ever? And engineers too? No one who contributed to an Apple chip design could ever work for Intel, and vice-versa. Yet, as far as I can tell, they do.

[Quackdoc]

That's what everyone always says. But if it were true, wouldn't that make it effectively illegal for computer programmers to change jobs ever? And engineers too? No one who contributed to an Apple chip design could ever work for Intel, and vice-versa. Yet, as far as I can tell, they do.

because they
A) had legal permission to view/work on the source code.
B) usually sign legally binding papers swearing that any proprietary information they had access to won't be used in their future endeavors.

There is a difference between using the experience you have earned, and actually taking work with you. I suppose if anyone who viewed the source code, went to nvidia and said, hey, I need those papers. then sure. they would regain some employment aspects in that regard.

[mdedetrich]

That's what everyone always says. But if it were true, wouldn't that make it effectively illegal for computer programmers to change jobs ever? And engineers too? No one who contributed to an Apple chip design could ever work for Intel, and vice-versa. Yet, as far as I can tell, they do.

No, that doesn't mean changing jobs is illegal.

What could possibly be illegal however is if you changed jobs and used your previous companies IP in your new competitors product and it was very obvious you were doing so then its highly likely you would be sued and this has happened many times.

As with many cases like this, lawyers will not say something is completely illegal or not but they will tell you how the risk and how likely you will get sued. In this case with NVidia its incredibly risky because its very difficult to prove otherwise. Their current drivers and firmware is signed, so unless someone manages to break modern crypto if someone was to suddenly submit an OS patch with fully working implementation of NVidia GFX cards their only 2 reasonable cases this could happen

1. Someone from inside NVidia went rougue and did this and you can bet your ass they will get sued to oblivion
2. Someone viewed the leaked documents from LAPSUS and NVidia can claim that its very obvious this occurred because its practically impossible to implement otherwise.

[karolherbst]

No, that doesn't mean changing jobs illegal.

What could possibly be illegal however is if you changed jobs and used your previous companies IP in your new competitors product and it was very obvious you were doing so then its highly likely you would be sued and this has happened many times.

As with many cases like this, lawyers will not say something is completely illegal or not but they will tell you how the risk and how likely you will get sued. In this case with NVidia its incredibly risky because its very difficult to prove otherwise. Their current drivers and firmware is signed, so unless someone manages to break modern crypto if someone was to suddenly submit an OS patch with fully working implementation of NVidia GFX cards their only 2 reasonable cases this could happen

1. Someone from inside NVidia went rougue and did this and you can bet your ass they will get sued to oblivion
2. Someone viewed the leaked documents from LAPSUS and NVidia can claim that its very obvious this occurred because its practically impossible to implement otherwise.

in practice this doesn't really matter as companies have patents, which are essentially published protected IP, so you know the "secrets" but can't use them unless you pay the fee.

It's e.g. relevant if it comes to company security. You can't just leave your job and tell how screwed company security is, because if that information gets used for attacks and people find out who leaked it, one is in big trouble. So you have a very good reason to shut your trap about all that stuff anyway

[Developer12]

That's what everyone always says. But if it were true, wouldn't that make it effectively illegal for computer programmers to change jobs ever? And engineers too? No one who contributed to an Apple chip design could ever work for Intel, and vice-versa. Yet, as far as I can tell, they do.

Now you discover the wonderful thing that is "the non-compete clause." It is not uncommon for a contract to stipulate that you can't work in the same area for 6 months or a year after you leave. I've personally had to sign such agreements as a condition of employment.

Even then, basically every IPPA agreement has clauses saying you can't take anything you develop for one company and apply it at another later. "trade secrets" or "proprietary information" or any of a bunch of other terms. Typically if you move to a new company you have to be working on a sufficiently different project, and you're going to have to clear past work with legal first. My agreement came with a handy-dandy form to fill out, listing everything I had worked on in the past.

[NobodyXu]

Now you discover the wonderful thing that is "the non-compete clause." It is not uncommon for a contract to stipulate that you can't work in the same area for 6 months or a year after you leave. I've personally had to sign such agreements as a condition of employment.

Even then, basically every IPPA agreement has clauses saying you can't take anything you develop for one company and apply it at another later. "trade secrets" or "proprietary information" or any of a bunch of other terms. Typically if you move to a new company you have to be working on a sufficiently different project, and you're going to have to clear past work with legal first. My agreement came with a handy-dandy form to fill out, listing everything I had worked on in the past.

With the exception of Raja M. Koduri, who went straight into Intel's Arc GPU development after leaving AMD.

And probably true for other top experts in their domain as well.

[Developer12]

With the exception of Raja M. Koduri, who went straight into Intel's Arc GPU development after leaving AMD.

And probably true for other top experts in their domain as well.

He's a manager. They don't touch the actual engineering.

[mdedetrich]

in practice this doesn't really matter as companies have patents, which are essentially published protected IP, so you know the "secrets" but can't use them unless you pay the fee.

It's e.g. relevant if it comes to company security. You can't just leave your job and tell how screwed company security is, because if that information gets used for attacks and people find out who leaked it, one is in big trouble. So you have a very good reason to shut your trap about all that stuff anyway

Yup completely true, I glossed over patents but in the case of NVidia not sure if they have relevant patents here. They do apparently have a lot of IP that has been taken from acquisitions (i.e. SG)

[Jabberwocky]

He's a manager. They don't touch the actual engineering.

So you have to an engineer to know what the engineers are doing?

Personally I'm not a fan of Raja but implying that he had zero trade secrets or extremely valuable insights when he jumped ship. Press X to doubt...

[Developer12]

So you have to an engineer to know what the engineers are doing?

Personally I'm not a fan of Raja but implying that he had zero trade secrets or extremely valuable insights when he jumped ship. Press X to doubt...

He's not going to be doing with any of the real design work. When you're that far up the ladder, you're far to busy to take any of it on, and you don't have time to keep up to date either. There's virtually no risk from someone that far removed from the front lines A) learning about proprietary information that's still relevant and then B) somehow communicating it all the way back down the ladder to the guy doing the circuit layout.