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Open-Source "Nouveau" Driver Now Supports NVIDIA Ampere - But Without 3D Acceleration

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  • DebianLinuxero
    replied
    NVidia fuck you !! still stands.

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  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
    By definition they are not fatal system stopping bugs otherwise literally no one would be using NVidia on Linux which is far from the case (ergo stop exaggerating). There are also plenty of similar bugs of same severity on AMD's side although there is no point in digging these up because the discussion is not going to get anywhere. Also from the bug reports you listed, it was a regression so its likely it will get fixed at some point in the future (welcome to software development, shit like this happens).
    Really did you not look closely. That fail is the 7 year old bug you point to in Ubuntu. 7 years ago that fault was fixed by altering the work flow not fixing the memory management issue in the driver. Also its not a regression either.

    Originally posted by Espionage724 View Post
    I used a GTX 1060 for about 5-6 months last year and never experienced what was described in the Reddit thread.
    With these race condition class bugs unless you do the right set of actions they don't happen. You can use something for years and hot hit them. Problem is some users will have a workflow that doing the right conditions over and over again and have it going splat.

    Horrible part here is these faults with the Nvidia driver go back 18 years and its never been properly fixed. The result of people having a workflow hit this bug is absolute hate of Nvidia. I hope that with the work to introduce DMA BUF into the Nvidia driver that Nvidia finally fixes up the memory management problem. Its how buffers are shared between things is what allows the race condition that leads to complete GPU processing death.

    Yes there are tones of similar bugs on the AMD side but on Linux they are fixed by fixing the driver properly not by altering the workflow to avoid them. There are quite a few core bugs in the Nvidia binary driver that have been masked over that finally need to be fixed properly.

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  • Espionage724
    replied
    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

    I am not talking about that bug I am in fact talking about faults that are not fixed.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/c...or_tty_switch/
    There are multi current bugs that people report that are basically all the same thing. Nvidia memory management screws up then it screws up the GPU that then nicely locks up in ways that the auto GPU reset does not fix.

    These are fatal system stopping bugs that the Nvidia closed source driver is suffering form. There are many people hitting these bugs mdedetrich I am not saying AMD is bug free but is also not correct to make out Nvidia is bug free. Nvidia closed source drivers on Linux have some very savage system stopping bugs. Yes it possible to have a workload where you are hitting the Nvidia bugs every 10 mins forcing a off at wall power reset of course if you are having that happen you cannot be productive at all.
    I used a GTX 1060 for about 5-6 months last year and never experienced what was described in the Reddit thread.

    I'd be confident that all drivers have some sort of "fatal system stopping bugs" that pop-up in different scenarios. I know amdgpu isn't perfect (personally had a few random lock-ups last year with 2 RX 580s), radeonsi isn't (had half a year where I couldn't play videos without random complete system freezes on my HD7850), and neither is i915 (had to redo a relative's laptop and put Windows back on it a few days ago because of instability with a kernel update; as bad as rep as Windows might get, I've never seen it randomly freeze without an obvious reason like OC'ing). I haven't had NVIDIA graphics for a large amount of time though, but my time with using them has been flawless.

    If NVIDIA's proprietary driver was really as unusable as people here are making it out to be, it likely wouldn't exist (at least for general users and gaming), and definitely wouldn't be supported on mainstream distros. If open-source was as-beneficial as people are also making it out to be, NVIDIA would have done it. I'm willing to bet NVIDIA knows more about what they're doing and why than some angry forum users though

    (offer still stands if someone wants to trade me a comparable NVIDIA GPU for a RX 580)

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  • mdedetrich
    replied
    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
    These are fatal system stopping bugs that the Nvidia closed source driver is suffering form.
    By definition they are not fatal system stopping bugs otherwise literally no one would be using NVidia on Linux which is far from the case (ergo stop exaggerating). There are also plenty of similar bugs of same severity on AMD's side although there is no point in digging these up because the discussion is not going to get anywhere. Also from the bug reports you listed, it was a regression so its likely it will get fixed at some point in the future (welcome to software development, shit like this happens).

    Again what is your point here? No one is saying that Nvidia is bug free, but that a lot of people (including myself) have been using NVidia without any real problems for non trivial use cases (I have personally been using them for a decade). In fact the only thing that I can thing of that was major is the whole optimus/hybrid issue but then again at the time AMD didn't even have an equivalent solution (or it was a joke, can't remember now) and its working today anyways (I have optimus prime offload on my laptop).

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  • birdie
    replied
    An amazing amount of hatred against the vendor no one must be using here in this thread. And if you're still using it you're not a Linux zealot enough, so please kindly f' off.

    In short Open Source fan-atics continue to demonstrate why companies which refuse to spend millions of dollars on a God forsaken OS (I'm talking about its desktop share) shouldn't really bother with supporting Linux more than nominally even through God forbidden blobs.

    NVIDIA is a very successful multi-billion business and most of you are no ones. Maybe step back a little and have some modesty.

    P.S. A happy and content NVIDIA user using a horrible blob under outdated X.org.

    Leave a comment:


  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
    I don't know if you are talking about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...s/+bug/1275760 but it was fixed 7 years ago and I also don't know whats the point of this nitpicking you are doing. Its not like AMD cards are free from bugs (far from it).
    I am not talking about that bug I am in fact talking about faults that are not fixed.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/c...or_tty_switch/
    There are multi current bugs that people report that are basically all the same thing. Nvidia memory management screws up then it screws up the GPU that then nicely locks up in ways that the auto GPU reset does not fix.

    These are fatal system stopping bugs that the Nvidia closed source driver is suffering form. There are many people hitting these bugs mdedetrich I am not saying AMD is bug free but is also not correct to make out Nvidia is bug free. Nvidia closed source drivers on Linux have some very savage system stopping bugs. Yes it possible to have a workload where you are hitting the Nvidia bugs every 10 mins forcing a off at wall power reset of course if you are having that happen you cannot be productive at all.

    Leave a comment:


  • mdedetrich
    replied
    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

    There is a documented race condition still not fixed in the current day Nvidia drivers. So that just you being lucky and not having the right/wrong loads on the GPU when you do the switch to TTY. If a person workflow is the right pattern Nvidia is the worst thing on earth on Linux. Hopefully with DMA BUF support coming they will fix up the buffer sharing issue that causes this fail.
    I don't know if you are talking about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...s/+bug/1275760 but it was fixed 7 years ago and I also don't know whats the point of this nitpicking you are doing. Its not like AMD cards are free from bugs (far from it).

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  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
    I do this as well, zero problems (if by text mode you mean TTY)
    There is a documented race condition still not fixed in the current day Nvidia drivers. So that just you being lucky and not having the right/wrong loads on the GPU when you do the switch to TTY. If a person workflow is the right pattern Nvidia is the worst thing on earth on Linux. Hopefully with DMA BUF support coming they will fix up the buffer sharing issue that causes this fail.

    Leave a comment:


  • Espionage724
    replied
    Originally posted by mangeek View Post

    I've been daily-driving GNOME on Wayland for eight months, on a laptop that I plug and unplug from a dock to a HiDPI screen that needs fractional scaling. It works beautifully. Not a single DE crash.

    You complain about unaccelerated cursors, but the awful performance of fractional scaling on X is what got me to switch to Wayland.
    I was updating documentation in Firefox on Fedora 33 with GNOME on Wayland, and out of nowhere the entire shell crashed. Everything gone, and I wasn't even messing with GNOME. No extensions (outside of whatever Fedora ships with), and it was on a RX 580 with open-source drivers and a single screen. Every new release of Fedora I give Wayland a go, but so far have always ended up back on Xorg because of some issue (I think in F32 it was some copy/paste issue between Firefox and something else).

    I'm glad I don't need fractional scaling though; I do remember needing it some months back and Xorg was just blurry-mess with it, where it was fine on Wayland.

    Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post
    Because so many amd users are former nvidia users, having abandoned nvidia due to their anti-FOSS stance and the endless frustration caused by their proprietary driver. I'd be mad too if I had to deal with all that. Try having some empathy for the hours of frustration and lost productivity others have endured at the hands of nvidia.
    Flip AMD and NVIDIA around, and that's where I stand

    I have to dual-boot Windows and Linux. Generally speaking, drivers with both AMD and NVIDIA on Linux have been fine. The [email protected] issue with AMD I've spent months debugging, through RMAs, buying multiple cables, and even talking with my display manufacturer for different firmware.

    My main issues with AMD are on the Windows-side though with their driver. They broke Oculus Link on Polaris and Vega for about 5 driver releases now, and it took 2-3 drivers for them to even acknowledge it as a known issue. No reason why it's broken, and it's broken on GPUs that should be driver-mature by now (there's other encoder issues on RDNA that they should be focusing on instead of breaking it on older GPUs).

    There's no option to change the content type sent to the display; in my case, HDR on my 4K screen is washed-out because AMD sends non-video content as non-video, which although is correct, doesn't work on my display. NVIDIA has an option to force all content as either graphics or video. The solution in my case would be to force all content to be presented as video, and I can do it easily on NVIDIA. AMD has no option for this.​

    On a completely unrelated note, if someone who has a comparable NVIDIA GPU is "so unhappy with it" and wants to trade me for a RX 580, I'd be all for it

    Originally posted by undefined View Post

    And when it doesn't? If in 2 years Nvidia writes on their webpage that "we, gamers, and the rest of the industry do not use Linux and GPUs without SuperRTX3.0 anymore, so we are dropping Linux support", what are you going to do? Disable updates of your OS? Practically, your GPU will become a piece of garbage. You won't even theoretically be able to do anything with it without their blessing. It is almost like you don't even own the GPU, you need a blessing from Nvidia to use it. And God forbid you disagree with their EULA.
    I'd just use Windows then, and keep general-use on Linux with the non-3D-accelerated nouveau driver. I already do that primarily nowadays even with a RX 580, simply because I need a Windows install to do anything with VR, and gaming overall is a far better experience there.

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  • mdedetrich
    replied
    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

    Not exactly that some usage issues that come up. Like if you are switching between text mode and graphical a lot that Nvidia binary driver starts causing system wide lockups this is not a distribution thing this is defect in way Nvidia driver hooks into the system.
    I do this as well, zero problems (if by text mode you mean TTY)

    Leave a comment:

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