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Nouveau Still Pushing Forward In 2020 Thanks To Red Hat But Community Developers Leaving

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  • #71
    Well, I might jump ship for AMD (open sourced well supported GPU) on my next graphics card purchase, if all future NVidia cards are crippled. Only problem, I'll have to migrate everything to EFI, as AMD card drivers specifically rely upon EFI/EUFI instead of MBR, else the drivers fail installing/working.

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    • #72
      Originally posted by rogerx View Post
      Well, I might jump ship for AMD (open sourced well supported GPU) on my next graphics card purchase, if all future NVidia cards are crippled. Only problem, I'll have to migrate everything to EFI, as AMD card drivers specifically rely upon EFI/EUFI instead of MBR, else the drivers fail installing/working.
      Really? Which driver? I really doubt this because it seems to make little sense and also that I used to have CSM boot on my desktop until I converted it and it was using RX 460 at the time.

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      • #73
        I find this very interesting:



        It shows that NVIDIA only has 30% of the marketshare. Nouveau is almost half 12.8%. The rest is AMD and (mostly) Intel.

        Is this a viable source of data? This is quite incredible. Why does anyone even bother to write support for the binary NVIDIA blob? Barely anyone is using it.

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        • #74
          Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
          I find this very interesting:



          It shows that NVIDIA only has 30% of the marketshare. Nouveau is almost half 12.8%. The rest is AMD and (mostly) Intel.

          Is this a viable source of data? This is quite incredible. Why does anyone even bother to write support for the binary NVIDIA blob? Barely anyone is using it.
          Really cool stats.

          As for your question: my guess is:

          The only people supporting the development & integration of the NVIDIA blob are: (in order of care)
          • NVIDIA
          • The user-friendly-focused distros (e.g. Ubuntu & Mint)
          • Devs who actually explicitly want to support NVIDIA (e.g. because they need Cuda support or because they are working for a hardware company that doesn't care about Open Source philosophy & culture and opted to include an NVIDIA card in their product 'cos it was fastest).
          • Devs who get bug reports from their users related to the NVIDIA blob and don't mind throwing in simple fixes, because they care about their users.
          I think those are the main motivators behind it.

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          • #75
            Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post
            Really cool stats.
            Yeah, I will try to dig up how large the pool is before I get too excited. Hopefully it isn't based on ~10 users who just happen to enable the "package analytics" .
            A bit like Debian's popcon, it is fantastic in principle but us *nix folk tend to default to "off" when it comes to this stuff haha.

            Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post
            The only people supporting the development & integration of the NVIDIA blob are: (in order of care)
            I think you are right. The only slightly weird anomaly I see is the FreeBSD port of their blob. I have no idea why it still exists.
            Don't get me wrong, it is unfortunately extremely useful because we have no Nouveau, the blob is pretty much the only solution we have for NVIDIA hardware. So begrudgingly I have to say that I am glad it is around (until we can make progress with Nouveau)

            But I just don't understand why NVIDIA is providing it to us. What benefit is it to them? Is it perhaps an easy port from the Solaris build? Is there some heretic in the NVIDIA development department who is doing it as a labor of love? haha

            One thing is for sure, I can honestly see it disappear within the next few years.

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            • #76
              Originally posted by xinorom View Post
              Originally posted by DanL
              See above (and lay off the Caps Lock).
              DanL strikes again, with his cutting wit.
              Yep, and I wasn't even trying to be witty there. Is there another way I could have phrased that so that dimwits like yourself could understand better?

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              • #77
                I look forward to Nouveau able to handle decent HW acceleration on Maxwell, I don't care about game FPS, but at least a bit of power in Blender.
                Eventually this stupid game by Nvidia will it cost they a lot! The day that AMD or Intel will do more powerful GPU than the Nvidia ones, suddenly Nvidia will be ten years in delay.

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                • #78
                  Originally posted by mulenmar View Post

                  This is factually wrong. Modern versions of Windows include drivers for GPUs, beyond basic VESA support, so that their overdone 3D and transparency effects GUI doesn't make the OS look bad. These drivers are very basic, and in some cases I recall don't include OpenGL support (just DirectX), in addition to being out of date by installation time... but they exist.



                  ...uh, you do realize that terminals not "accelerated" whatsoever by GPUs?
                  Hmm, "...overdone 3D and transparency effects GUI..." I've run Windows 10 in VMs under QEMU-KVM many times. The virtual video card there does not support any 3D acceleration and yet Windows still performs well and does not look ugly. Windows doesn't need anything beyond VGA / VESA to work well. That's also true of its Safe Mode boot, which doesn't use GPU drivers.

                  Terminals being accelerated is an interesting thing. Terminal text acceleration has been a thing for so long that people forget it's even there, but it definitely is. The original video cards had that as their whole job. They had font character data and as they read the video RAM that held the characters they would copy the font pixels into the video raster output.

                  That's definitely acceleration.

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                  • #79
                    Originally posted by Tomin View Post

                    Really? Which driver? I really doubt this because it seems to make little sense and also that I used to have CSM boot on my desktop until I converted it and it was using RX 460 at the time.
                    Yes really. The default/OEM AMD video card Windows 10 drivers typically require EFI/UEFI firmware booting and the drivers will fail properly loading/installing/working with MBR booted Windows 10. Obviously more than a slight oversight on system requirement specifications. (The AMD card recently purchased then tossed in a bin, was designed for Windows 7 era.)

                    However if I'm not mistaken, should be likely no problems as you likely experiece, if using the open source or Linux drivers while booting into Linux via MBR partitions.

                    I think the Nouveau driver also inhibits signs of this problem as well, requiring to be loaded early on within the Linux boot stage versus loading nouveau module after system boot. Deals with the initialization process. Personally, I prefer booting via text, then enabling higher resolution once my operating system is successfully booted. I hate diagnosing boot bugs, and finding most boot bugs relating towards the features of having pretty higher resolution graphics! Boot me to text first, so I can check my Email and browse the Internet with mut & elinks, otherwise I'm sunk requiring a second computer for troubleshooting.

                    But as I iterated, a slight stumbling block, and would *imagine* EFI being stable or having a fallback by the time I jump into EFI.
                    Last edited by rogerx; 03 February 2020, 11:49 AM.

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                    • #80
                      Originally posted by rogerx View Post

                      Yes really. The default/OEM AMD video card Windows 10 drivers typically require EFI/UEFI firmware booting and the drivers will fail properly loading/installing/working with MBR booted Windows 10. Obviously more than a slight oversight on system requirement specifications. (The AMD card recently purchased then tossed in a bin, was designed for Windows 7 era.)
                      So, it was with Windows drivers. That explains it. I don't use Windows on my newer computers anymore.

                      Originally posted by rogerx View Post
                      However if I'm not mistaken, should be likely no problems as you likely experiece, if using the open source or Linux drivers while booting into Linux via MBR partitions.
                      Yeah, I've even used that same RX 460 a little while on a motherboard that has old fashioned BIOS so it should work without issues on Linux. To be exact I had GPT partioning although I didn't have UEFI (BIOS will read the bootloader from MBR just fine). It's also a combination that wouldn't work with Windows.

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