NVIDIA Contributes Much Less To The Linux Kernel Than Intel Or AMD

[birdie]

my 2 cent:

- servers are pretty much dominated by Linux
- servers can also use GPUs
- AMD's effort to provide FOSS drivers also applied to GPUs on servers
- FOSS drivers have proven easier to handle, to build load automation over it, to work on VMs and microsservices, etc

Given that, i'm not surprised that Google Stadia is not based on Nvidia, and this is not a completely isolated case... so Nvidia must think carefully on their linux efforts, not because of gaming desktop GPUs, but because an even bigger market may be at stake

(and the big performance-per-watt gap between brands, which almost made me give up on AMD for a while and also is a big concern for servers, seems to be vanishing too)

You do not know why Google went with AMD GPUs, yet you claim they did that because AMD GPUs feature open source drivers which invalidates your whole argument/theory and conclusions.

Speaking of the performance-per-watt gap between brands - 7nm based Ampere GPUs are not yet out and AMD have finally managed to compete with NVIDIA GPUs which are based on the inferior 12/14nm nodes which doesn't make them close in my books.

[birdie]

Same way it took longer for both MacOS an Windows to gain adoption over two decades without establishing a standard. I agree the Linux ecosystem took long to finally get their own system management to facilitate the development of desktop environment. The pieces are getting in place slowly and surely. Adaptation is the key.



That is NVIDIA problem given their history towards not only for Open Source but commercial as well (ask both Microsoft and SONY). NVIDIA driver mostly consists of horrible hack which can break even Windows system due to their non-standard compliant method. They attempt to get less reliant on GPU knowing full well AMD and Intel gradually taking over hence the vendor locking tactics.
Like it or not, Wayland implementation is already in production use from embedded to desktops (both Enlightenement via Tizen and Gnome Shell in enterprise environment). The challenge for the open source community is to prove they can do better by completing the missing piece of software like colour management and unified standard for the core components for the desktop. Let remind that MacOS went to similar process with a key difference: budget and a careful selection of hardware.

To return to the topic, the HP ENVY x360 Ryzen is about to get a nearly full out of box experience notably drivers wise now that AMD Sensor Fusion HUB patch is available except the ROCm OpenCL. Key reason is an active contribution to upstream.

Speaking of Wayland, its design/interfaces and adoption, which can be best described as a huge effing mess:

https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/wi...ve_xyz_problem

GNOME is most likely the most popular desktop environment on linux, and it defaults to Wayland on most distributions. This is unfortunate because there are many GNOME Wayland-specific issues with mpv that users mistake for being mpv or wayland bugs when in fact it's a GNOME problem. Until these are issues are fixed upstream, GNOME mpv users should specifically use the Xorg session or another Wayland compositor if they want a bug-free experience. Below is a short list of known issues.

• GNOME wayland is known to potentially have random vsync spikes and mistimed frames. This happens in both wayland and xwayland and only in GNOME. Until at least this is fixed, we can't even begin to consider recommending GNOME wayland.
• GNOME wayland has no server side decorations because they do deliberately do not support the xdg-decoration protocol which is a proper upstream protocol. Users can use --gpu-context=x11egl or --gpu-context=x11 to get decorations on GNOME wayland or use another compositor that supports xdg-decoration.
• GNOME wayland does not support the zwp idle inhibit manager protocol. This means that screen blanking will occur during video playblack depending on the user's settings. A workaround is to use launch mpv with the gnome-specific gnome-session-inhibit.

In short if you use GNOME Wayland and encounter an issue, please double check that it is actually an mpv issue before reporting it. A good rule of thumb is to check if it also occurs in both a wlroots-based compositor (i.e. sway) and weston. If so, it is probably our bug, but if not, GNOME is likely to blame.

And that's just one of the many issues which are still plaguing it after a decade of development.

[birdie]

Also see this: https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Wayland_Showstoppers

[Danielsan]

Nvidia might help making the development of the open source driver much more easier for the community. They need a CEO with much more vision, it is just a win win combo...

[tului]

Nvidia might help making the development of the open source driver much more easier for the community. They need a CEO with much more vision, it is just a win win combo...

The open source world an only pray JHH gets Coronavirus and dies

[vb_linux]

The open source world an only pray JHH gets Coronavirus and dies

That's very petty though. And CEOs are responsible for growth of the firm. Ever looked at Nvidia stock growth over last few years. In some areas, Nvidia is awesome. They do try to be customer centric. Nvidia shield TV has been supported for now. Nowhere in Android world you get that kind of support. Even TVs get less support from Samsung and LG. They provide excellent driver support, even if it is closed. You don't have to wait for new kernel release or compile mesa etc.

I would love if they have opensource driver which works out of the box, but still Nvidia are customer focussed unlike other firms which only work to screw over customers. Their CUDA and ML work has been cutting edge. Look through Tensorflow forum and you will find comments from one programmer who was assigned by AMD to figure out Tensorflow and and make it work. One programmer, really. Innovating in a field is harder than following through and then open sourcing your approach. It just becomes a business decision to fight against entrenchment, it is not altruism.

And before people call me Nvidia shill, I am not. I believe in AMD, so I bought a Nvidia card 3 years ago and also put a lot of my money on AMD comeback. My money is 4x now.

[Ironmask]

Speaking of Wayland, its design/interfaces and adoption, which can be best described as a huge effing mess:

https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/wi...ve_xyz_problem



And that's just one of the many issues which are still plaguing it after a decade of development.

... What you quoted literally says all of that is GNOME's fault and not Wayland
GNOME is a pile of garbage, nobody is surprised by that.

[piotrj3]

Same way it took longer for both MacOS an Windows to gain adoption over two decades without establishing a standard. I agree the Linux ecosystem took long to finally get their own system management to facilitate the development of desktop environment. The pieces are getting in place slowly and surely. Adaptation is the key.



That is NVIDIA problem given their history towards not only for Open Source but commercial as well (ask both Microsoft and SONY). NVIDIA driver mostly consists of horrible hack which can break even Windows system due to their non-standard compliant method. They attempt to get less reliant on GPU knowing full well AMD and Intel gradually taking over hence the vendor locking tactics.
Like it or not, Wayland implementation is already in production use from embedded to desktops (both Enlightenement via Tizen and Gnome Shell in enterprise environment). The challenge for the open source community is to prove they can do better by completing the missing piece of software like colour management and unified standard for the core components for the desktop. Let remind that MacOS went to similar process with a key difference: budget and a careful selection of hardware.

To return to the topic, the HP ENVY x360 Ryzen is about to get a nearly full out of box experience notably drivers wise now that AMD Sensor Fusion HUB patch is available except the ROCm OpenCL. Key reason is an active contribution to upstream.

Ask windows users right now how stable AMD's drivers are/were through last few years. Because seriously Nvidia is doing there better in normal consumer section.

[wertigon]

Ask windows users right now how stable AMD's drivers are/were through last few years. Because seriously Nvidia is doing there better in normal consumer section.

Whether AMD is a better choice or not in Windows is mostly irrelevant for a Linux discussion.

At the end of the day, Nvidia is a closed source company in an open source ecosystem. That will create friction, but it is their choice to keep with their current path, forge a new one, or exit the ecosystem. As long as said friction does not hurt their bottom line there is no reason to change, really.

I personally think that sucks, because open drivers are so much easier to work with, but hey, I'm just another smelly asshole on the internet so whatever.

[Zucca]

I personally think that sucks, because open drivers are so much easier to work with

I have the same experience. Although many years ago.

I'm nowdays switched to wayland couldn't think of using Nvidia GPU as my primary GPU.