The Open-Source NVIDIA/Nouveau vs. NVIDIA Linux Driver At The End Of 2019 - Poor But A Lot Of Hope

[loganj]

CochainComplex im using both windows and linux at home. mostly linux since d9vk started to work for the game that i play. at work there is no way to use linux. our software has no linux version and im pretty sure there will not be a linux version for the next 10 years if not forever.
now to come back to the topic. i use nvidia 970 card for a few years now. before i was with intel gpu on 3570k and before that radeon card i forgot the number and before that a geforce. cpus are the same i had amd, intel, intel, and now amd.
i dont really care who makes the driver as long as it works. and nvidia works on linux pretty well. i don't have to switch countless versions of drivers like you need to do for amd in order to work. its only 1 and works. the only downside of nvidia proprietary driver is that its not always ready for new kernels. but as i said before i think that the problem is not necesary on nvidia side only as is on kernel side also since kernels keep changing without a care for backward compatibility for drivers. like their saying "its not opensource, we don't care"
there are so many hardwares that have no opensource drivers and its funny to see how people keep barking at nvidia for not helping the "community". why people act like this without thinking.
for now im still waiting for "something" to convince me to buy an amd gpu. but for now i prefer to pay 100$ more and have better performance and at a lower power consumption than amd. maybe next amd gpu can actually be at on par with middle nvidia cards in both performance and power consumption

[mathew7]

No comments on laptops? I've had an MSI GS43VR (GTX1060) and now a Thinkpad T480 (MX150) that neither can boot a liveCD (Ubuntu or Fedora) without blacklisting nouveau.
And although I do have the MX150 T480, DON'T BUY IT for linux. Nvdia driver shows a slowdown temp of 97C (and keeps clocks at 1600MHz), but thinkpad EC will trigger a CPU 200MHz and GPU 400MHz when CPU does a moderate workload with GPU @ 75C (CPU full-to-idle temp difference is about 30C, so I assume CPU gets to 100C). And this happens before fan spins-up. My workaround is: fan full-speed, underclock MX150 to -200/-2000 and HyperThreading disabled.

[mathew7]

CochainComplex for now im still waiting for "something" to convince me to buy an amd gpu. but for now i prefer to pay 100$ more and have better performance and at a lower power consumption than amd. maybe next amd gpu can actually be at on par with middle nvidia cards in both performance and power consumption

So, my amdgpu tries are not so good:
- Ryzen 3 (in HP x360 13" laptop): cs:go fps_benchmark runs slower under Linux that Windows.
- Desktop 5700XT: amdgpu stutters in Ubuntu 19.10, AMD provides only 18.04 drivers which I did not test (but this desktop is for games only, so #&[email protected]$%@#$ it's a Win10 desktop, the only Windows PC in my house)

[CochainComplex]

So, my amdgpu tries are not so good:
- Ryzen 3 (in HP x360 13" laptop): cs:go fps_benchmark runs slower under Linux that Windows.
- Desktop 5700XT: amdgpu stutters in Ubuntu 19.10, AMD provides only 18.04 drivers which I did not test (but this desktop is for games only, so #&[email protected]$%@#$ it's a Win10 desktop, the only Windows PC in my house)

I have no ryzen 3 but a 5700XT - I also used ubuntu 19.10 but I have moved to pop os ...because of other reasons.
Make sure you have the latest firmware I usually clone the git linux firmware repo directly into /lib/firmware.
Latest Mesa from oibaf. (optional get Linux Kernels 5.4+ - they are better suitable for Navi).
Shadow of the Tomb Raider works faster under Linux as under win (DX12 - 19.12.3 driver). But my CPU is rather old (FX8350) .
(My config: Pop_Os 19.10, Kernel 5.4 with march=native and latest Mesa via oibaf repo and aco enabled) ..if you change any of it make sure you wipe the mesa shader cache otherwise the game might hang - happend to me after patching march=native to the kernel)

p.s.: I also have a NAS based on AMD Athlon 200GE - running with debian stretch and I m firing it with a couple of different kernels from 5.0 to 5.4(now) and there has been no issue with mesa and the Vega 3 but well I have to admit I dont use it for heavy gaming - so i dont know how the fps are in comparison to win and it is not ryzen 3 gen

p.p.s... Set the cpu governor to performance...otherwise you might be hit by a fps penalty

[CochainComplex]

No comments on laptops? I've had an MSI GS43VR (GTX1060) and now a Thinkpad T480 (MX150) that neither can boot a liveCD (Ubuntu or Fedora) without blacklisting nouveau.
And although I do have the MX150 T480, DON'T BUY IT for linux. Nvdia driver shows a slowdown temp of 97C (and keeps clocks at 1600MHz), but thinkpad EC will trigger a CPU 200MHz and GPU 400MHz when CPU does a moderate workload with GPU @ 75C (CPU full-to-idle temp difference is about 30C, so I assume CPU gets to 100C). And this happens before fan spins-up. My workaround is: fan full-speed, underclock MX150 to -200/-2000 and HyperThreading disabled.

([email protected]) I have had horrible times with setting up T1000 Quadro on my Precision 7540 and ubuntu 18.04 (even recommended Dell OEM Version). I dont want to explain it again - I have mentioned it in another Topic but bottom line couple of wasted days (!) trying all permutations with different repos, driver versions, kernels, bios settings, blacklists, recompilation of the drivers with different gcc's versions, even distributions.... Now it is half working but not tearfree or some functionalities like cuda are missing...so my experience with nvidia is as bad as it can get.

With AMD cards and a rather recent Kernel 5.0+ plus Mesa there is no point to complain for me.

p.s.: 5700XT is on par with mid priced Nvidias. And I would rather pay 100$ more to have proper opensource drivers as they are now on AMD side or Intel.
Might be coincidence but my recent devices: Opensource - intel igpu 530 - works, intel igpu hd4000 - works, intel igpu 630 - works, amd dgpu pitcairn - works, amd igpu vega3 - works, amd dgpu navi 10 - works .....Closed/Open source nvidia t1000 quadro - doesn't work.

edit.: Intel igpu HD4000 is laking of proper Vulkan support even if it is supported in the Win version....so this is a complain.

[scirocco]

Yeah this is why I tried to go over to the AMD Radeon side but sadly it failed spectacularly, could never get the 5700XT stable enough for games so I gave up and sent it back. Now I have bought a 2070 super instead, almost 100$ more but atleast it buys me peace of mind where it just works in my games. And damn that 5700xt was loud, sounded like a jet plane.

[techzilla]

CochainComplex i don't have to switch countless versions of drivers like you need to do for amd in order to work. its only 1 and works. the only downside of nvidia proprietary driver is that its not always ready for new kernels.

What are you talking about? I've used one AMDGPU driver since I bought my Radeon Pro, and it was the one that came out-of-box with Fedora.

[USER="103338"]
but as i said before i think that the problem is not necesary on nvidia side only as is on kernel side also since kernels keep changing without a care for backward compatibility for drivers. like their saying "its not opensource, we don't care"

The problem isn't the developers not willing to choke out and stagnate their own OS, the problem is actually Linux's lack of modern OS architecture, and technically it isn't really Nvidia's fault ... but until they start talking about the need for a more robust solution, we have no choice but to hold them accountable.

[USER="103338"]
there are so many hardwares that have no opensource drivers and its funny to see how people keep barking at nvidia for not helping the "community". why people act like this without thinking.

You're the one who thinks this is about some moral obligation, there is nothing funny about our state of affairs, we simply must do what we can to move things forward once we see a better destination.

[USER="103338"]
for now im still waiting for "something" to convince me to buy an amd gpu. but for now i prefer to pay 100$ more and have better performance and at a lower power consumption than amd.

Yea well I pay less for an AMD card, and at least they are doing something to make things less crappy.

[CochainComplex]

Yeah this is why I tried to go over to the AMD Radeon side but sadly it failed spectacularly, could never get the 5700XT stable enough for games so I gave up and sent it back. Now I have bought a 2070 super instead, almost 100$ more but atleast it buys me peace of mind where it just works in my games. And damn that 5700xt was loud, sounded like a jet plane.

sad to hear. But loudness is a matter of brand. Was it a ASUS, MSI, Powercolor ...etc and which model?
I have a STRIX which is very quiet.

[scirocco]

sad to hear. But loudness is a matter of brand. Was it a ASUS, MSI, Powercolor ...etc and which model?
I have a STRIX which is very quiet.

I bought the cheapest MSI model of 5700 xt mech something. And compared to the cheapest 2070 super PNY mini, its about 10 times more loud then the nividia card, and about 20 c warmer.

[CochainComplex]

I bought the cheapest MSI model of 5700 xt mech something. And compared to the cheapest 2070 super PNY mini, its about 10 times more loud then the nividia card, and about 20 c warmer.

https://www.computerbase.de/2019-09/...ahme_im_detail

In case you dont understand german:
scroll down to: Lautstärke -beim Spielen (transl: Noise - gaming)
click 17 Einträge (trsnl.: +17 entries - this will unroll the whole table)

if you compare the entire set of AMD 5700 (XT) with the entire set of 2070 (S) I would say that in the most cases 5700Xt are less noisy then Super 2070 S but as said this depends heavily on the Manufacturers cooling solution and also on the bios switch.

Also interesting is the idle case here the 5700 XTs are clearly ahead.
click on Lautstärke - Windows (Noise - Windows)

So now to your example - If I buy the cheapest (prices germany) MSI 5700 XT mech 394€ and compare this with PNY Geforce RTX 2070 Super mini 543€ - there is still a difference of 149€ roughly 30% less
....I can tell you the AC in a basic Mercedes E class is also way better then in a basic Mercedes C class and here we are not talking about all the other features....
30% is a price class difference and even the lowest config in the higher class should be better then the lowest config in the lower class.
If this is not the case you got ripped off.

btw. 10 times as loud is roughly 33 db if I recall it correctly? all Super 2070(S) and 5700(XT) are between 30dB(A) and 47dB(A) under load...this is a delta of 17 db ..means not even 4 times as loud if we compare max vs mins without comparing any teams or oc versiosn etc. (this would be a 5700 vs 5700 not even the XT's - the loudest is less noisy.)

p.s.: I have forgotten to mention there is also a datasheet with temperatures idle and load in the same link ... i can not see 20 temp without including OC versions or the bad reference cooler. The most cards of both teams tend to have around 75C under load. on idle nvidia cards are cooler....but I dont think that there is a significant different amount of ware out diffusion going on in a silicon semiconductor with 30C (coolest 2070S) vs 44 Cdeg (hottest 5700XT) - so you will not see the benefit of prolonged lifetime here.

Unfortunately both of your cards are not in this list. And I couldnt even find temps for the pny mini. If you have them I would like to see it.