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NVIDIA Starts Publishing GPU Hardware Documentation To Help Open-Source Drivers

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  • aht0
    replied
    Originally posted by onicsis View Post
    And this is not Nouveau fault, but it's 100% exclusive Nvidia fault. So "Fuck you Nvidia" mean buying AMD next time.
    Nouveau has it's definite niche. It works with Optimus while Nvidia's does not, except on Windows.

    Buying AMD GPU as a matter of principle? Might do that, just to get working graphics on some particular platform ignored by Nvidia (with most Ryzen processors you won't be having iGPU option either). It's sadly no-go when you need powerful card for gaming. Too many driver issues.

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  • onicsis
    replied
    Back in the days, took AMD few weeks to publish hardware documentations GPUs, after obtaining approvals from their legal department. Not F seven years, an eternity in computer industry. To late for them, many users switched to something else already. AMD it's much more feasible in this days even in terms of general purpose GPU computing.

    But as long frequency can't be scaled well and dynamically also, open source drivers are far from optimum performance compared with AMD or even Intel OSS drivers, which are better than Nouveau even for high end video cards. And this is not Nouveau fault, but it's 100% exclusive Nvidia fault. So "Fuck you Nvidia" mean buying AMD next time.

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  • aht0
    replied
    Originally posted by dragon321 View Post

    AMD Supports only Linux, so there isn't very much to share. Nvidia with similar model would have to port and maintain Nouveau on FreeBSD and Solaris. Question is why they would do it, when they already have driver with support for these platforms?

    And who gonna port and maintain Nouveau for these platforms? Nvidia already have unified driver working on these platforms so why they would drop it, port and maintain Nouveau on FreeBSD and Solaris? Since Nouveau is Linux driver, porting it to nonLinux platform is more difficult.

    To be honest, I prefer AMD but I understand why AMD driver model wouldn't work well for Nvidia.
    Nvidia has universal driver, which at it's very core is identical for all platforms. What Nvidia itself terms "our common code". Just "glue" connecting to kernels of different platforms differs. It's way better model than porting to 2 non-POSIX-compliant platforms and then leaving the "figuring-out how the hell you port few millions LoC" to the POSIX-compliant OS's devs themselves.

    OpenBSD has trouble with Radeon driver updates because they threw out Linux ABI support for security reasons and devs just dread having to work through millions of LoC trying to port it over to BSD kernel. Do it often and your whole time is spent on nothing but that. Fine, when you are paid for it, not so fine, when it's your free time you could use for developing something else - instead of rooting out linuxisms and trying to find alternative ways evening after evening..

    So, quit crying about it. Linux has Nvidia driver afterall. While it's not just ideologically "acceptable" for bunch of fanatics, it's still better than not having driver at all.
    Last edited by aht0; 11 August 2019, 07:19 PM.

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  • geearf
    replied
    Originally posted by dragon321 View Post

    AMD Supports only Linux, so there isn't very much to share. Nvidia with similar model would have to port and maintain Nouveau on FreeBSD and Solaris. Question is why they would do it, when they already have driver with support for these platforms?



    And who gonna port and maintain Nouveau for these platforms? Nvidia already have unified driver working on these platforms so why they would drop it, port and maintain Nouveau on FreeBSD and Solaris? Since Nouveau is Linux driver, porting it to nonLinux platform is more difficult.

    To be honest, I prefer AMD but I understand why AMD driver model wouldn't work well for Nvidia.
    I believe DAL is used in Windows too, so is a lot of their Vulkan code.

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  • dragon321
    replied
    Originally posted by geearf View Post

    Isn't AMD's DAL/DC shared between platforms too? If so what would be the blocking difference?
    AMD Supports only Linux, so there isn't very much to share. Nvidia with similar model would have to port and maintain Nouveau on FreeBSD and Solaris. Question is why they would do it, when they already have driver with support for these platforms?

    Originally posted by Berniyh View Post
    I don't see what the problem would be there.
    The whole KMS/DRM stack is explicitly licenced such that it could be integrated into *BSD.
    And who gonna port and maintain Nouveau for these platforms? Nvidia already have unified driver working on these platforms so why they would drop it, port and maintain Nouveau on FreeBSD and Solaris? Since Nouveau is Linux driver, porting it to nonLinux platform is more difficult.

    To be honest, I prefer AMD but I understand why AMD driver model wouldn't work well for Nvidia.
    Last edited by dragon321; 11 August 2019, 06:31 AM.

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  • DanL
    replied
    I get the feeling that this is - "Nvidia formally documents what counterfeiters and reverse engineering has already figured out."

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  • birdie
    replied
    Originally posted by aht0 View Post
    Considering the general attitude of previous posts, if I was Nvidia's CEO, I'd say "fuck you, too" right this instant and order the github repo made private. "Don't publish - whine, publish - whine is even greater". Like vengeful ex-wife - never possible to satisfy, unless you killed himself and even then she would bitch about not getting enough out of it, khm, to her kid.

    And I am frankly clueless about your rant about "paid drivers". Jesus, you can download drivers FREE for desktop use for all OS'es, incl "on-life-support" Solaris. All you have to pay for, is the cards, which is exact same situation with AMD. Enterprise has to follow their own contracts and agreements anyway and it's completely irrelevant for desktop users.
    Open source fan attics in essence. ;-) You've also forgotten about the fact that AMD has not revealed full documentation for their GPUs either - they published just enough to make their GPUs work under Linux.

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  • aht0
    replied
    Considering the general attitude of previous posts, if I was Nvidia's CEO, I'd say "fuck you, too" right this instant and order the github repo made private. "Don't publish - whine, publish - whine is even greater". Like vengeful ex-wife - never possible to satisfy, unless you killed himself and even then she would bitch about not getting enough out of it, khm, to her kid.

    And I am frankly clueless about your rant about "paid drivers". Jesus, you can download drivers FREE for desktop use for all OS'es, incl "on-life-support" Solaris. All you have to pay for, is the cards, which is exact same situation with AMD. Enterprise has to follow their own contracts and agreements anyway and it's completely irrelevant for desktop users.

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  • birdie
    replied
    Bumpgate was the real thing - I was among the people who suffered from it (in terms of money and I couldn't claim anything since I'm not a US citizen). All others are not perfect but I wouldn't say they were "evil" - that's where you are exaggerating a thousand times more than I did by saying about the Linux mob hatred towards NVIDIA.
    Last edited by birdie; 09 August 2019, 07:59 AM.

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  • Jabberwocky
    replied
    TLDR; Understand before you critique.

    Originally posted by birdie View Post
    The Linux community hates anyone/anything that's not GPL/open no matter how good it intrinsically is.
    Exaggerated, but you are correct about Linux community not liking devices that use proprietary code. There's are very good reasons for that. I'm not going to go into that here.

    IMO proprietary and intrinsically good are mutually exclusive terms in most consumer hardware devices. Enterprise has a different story...

    NVIDIA is in an order of magnitude more successful than AMD and they release great products which work great but that doesn't stop people from hating them because NVIDIA doesn't offer 100% support for a very peculiar OS barely used by gamers
    What kind of research did you do to make up this blanket statement?

    I've had various issues with Nvidia's hardware and software, but you get problems with any manufacturer... AMD, Intel, ARM, SUN, IBM etc. The unique thing about Nvidia is that they have not taken responsibility (acknowledging) for hardware or software problems that I had. Sure most companies have semi-evil business practices, the unique thing about Nvidia is their level of evil business practices:IMO when your company becomes successful by some of the ways listed above, I would rather have it not be successful at all.

    Quite frankly hate that they never get from any other community (OS X, BSD, Windows, etc.)
    zexelon your statement above is factually incorrect. Nvidia gets lots of hate on other OSes too, especially OS X https://appleinsider.com/articles/19...-and-heres-why

    Analogy time...
    It is satisfying.
    It's very successful all over the earth.
    They have good marketing and PR.
    All children and most adults love it.
    They are very secretive about their products and how it's made.
    It can get pricey if you buy more often than you should or keep going for the expensive options.
    Yes! Nvidia is like McDonald's.

    PS: Each to their own, I know many people that are happy with Nvidia. I'm okay with that. Thanks to the nouveau devs for their hard work.

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