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  • finalzone
    replied
    Originally posted by bridgman View Post

    True, however that was a Ryzen-only testing gap. Epyc and Threadripper were heavily tested on Linux, but for better or worse Ryzen was viewed as selling into a pretty-much Windows-only market and tested accordingly.

    I believe that gap has been closed now (AFAIK the second gen Ryzen CPUs had a smooth launch from Linux POV), but we will continue to monitor.
    Mobile section notably Raven Ridge and Picasso still needs improvement on Linux ecoysystem as it seems neglected for some times. Case in the point is the incomplete support of GPU part on ROCm leading to slow performance of rendering on software like Blender and Darktable.
    On the bright side, the accelerometer needed for screen auto-rotation is in the work and expected to be ready in two months.

    Leave a comment:


  • nivedita
    replied
    Originally posted by sa666666 View Post

    I think that says it all right there. AMD is willing (and has) done great things for open source, and Nvidia (by your own admission) has not. In fact, they are actively hostile towards open source developers. AFAIC, that puts Nvidia out of consideration for Linux. If you're comfortable with proprietary drivers for a huge chunk of your OS, why are you even using Linux? But I guess it's all about "muh games". Typical gamer-only attitude.
    Open source friendly and Linux friendly really ought to be orthogonal. Nvidia proprietary drivers have higher performance on Linux than windows for compute tasks.

    Leave a comment:


  • alex79
    replied
    Originally posted by bridgman View Post

    With respect, I can understand how someone might have thought that ~12 years ago when we announced the open source driver initiative, but it's hard to believe anyone would actually think that today. Not only did we hire a new team of open source driver developers, but all of the developers working on closed source fglrx** moved across to work on the open source drivers as well... and that team has also continued to grow. We did this to make better drivers, not to save money.

    ** except for the developers working on closed source OpenGL, who kept working on closed source OpenGL for AMDGPU-PRO and added closed/open Vulkan as well



    Guessing you haven't been following recent reviews and benchmarks ? In general our open source Linux driver performance is on par with NVidia's closed source drivers for comparable boards, with the usual "some games favour NVidia, other games favour AMD" caveats.

    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...i-linux&num=11
    Nice try but that would be a no. I had 290 than moved to 390 and and the support was a joke. Sure you can pumper newest hardware but you ignored everything else. That was the reason I moved to 1070. Nobody cares that after 5 years the drivers catch-up when whole world moved on.
    AMD, you keep on digging your own grave.

    Leave a comment:


  • Djhg2000
    replied
    Originally posted by ThoreauHD View Post
    And to compete for the "mid-tier", AMD releases an overclocked vega 3 years later for twice the price of vega, with no open drivers. Am I missing anything?
    Yes, you are in fact missing quite a lot. Navi definitely isn't Vega (AFAICT (first gen?) RDNA supports GCN instructions for compatibility reasons but that's about it) and IIRC open drivers are coming with Linux 5.3 and Mesa 19.3.

    It's a new architecture and they've done everything to keep leaks away which unfortunately means the driver trees had to be hidden until now. IMHO they can't be faulted for successfully delivering a nice surprise to their loyal fans at Computex/E3 this year. I for one am very excited to see what Navi can deliver in the hands of Michael.

    Leave a comment:


  • aht0
    replied
    Nouveau in fact has it's niche. It's better than being without any drivers at all when you happen to have Intel-Nvidia hybrid graphics. Not all BIOSes of such machines allow for turning Nvidia completely off.

    Leave a comment:


  • ThoreauHD
    replied
    So, to sum up. Nvidia is permanently gimped on Nouveau. And to compete for the "mid-tier", AMD releases an overclocked vega 3 years later for twice the price of vega, with no open drivers. Am I missing anything? You know the worst part of all this, is when you realize Intel- fking bloated behemoth, is the only hope for the gpu market in linux. Makes my stomach turn just contemplating it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trevelyan
    replied
    bridgman AMD’s effort is appreciated. My next laptop will be with AMD CPU & GFX; probably Lenovo, as Dell seems stuck on Intel.

    Leave a comment:


  • bridgman
    replied
    Originally posted by stormcrow View Post
    The fact of the matter is that AMD didn't even bother doing much testing with any OS other than Windows when Ryzen was released (see the brou-ha-ha over the multithreading crash bugs in the Ryzen initial release revealed via Linux and FreeBSD users and AMD's prolonged silence on it), and those CPUs are far more relevant to the computing industry than AMD GPUs.
    True, however that was a Ryzen-only testing gap. Epyc and Threadripper were heavily tested on Linux, but for better or worse Ryzen was viewed as selling into a pretty-much Windows-only market and tested accordingly.

    I believe that gap has been closed now (AFAIK the second gen Ryzen CPUs had a smooth launch from Linux POV), but we will continue to monitor.
    Last edited by bridgman; 13 June 2019, 05:30 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • bridgman
    replied
    Originally posted by alex79 View Post
    Navi is a joke, so is all that AMD opensource work. AMD to save money stopped developing Linux drivers and dumped them on the community fooling them into thinking they are such a good guys. The fact is they don't give a crap about Linux users and that will backfire at them sooner or later. While Nvidia may not be opensource friendly, they at least provide solid drivers and performance.
    I had high hopes with Navi, like most people...fool me once AMD, shame on you, fool me twice...
    With respect, I can understand how someone might have thought that ~12 years ago when we announced the open source driver initiative, but it's hard to believe anyone would actually think that today. Not only did we hire a new team of open source driver developers, but all of the developers working on closed source fglrx** moved across to work on the open source drivers as well... and that team has also continued to grow. We did this to make better drivers, not to save money.

    ** except for the developers working on closed source OpenGL, who kept working on closed source OpenGL for AMDGPU-PRO and added closed/open Vulkan as well

    Originally posted by alex79 View Post
    While Nvidia may not be opensource friendly, they at least provide solid drivers and performance.
    Guessing you haven't been following recent reviews and benchmarks ? In general our open source Linux driver performance is on par with NVidia's closed source drivers for comparable boards, with the usual "some games favour NVidia, other games favour AMD" caveats.

    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...i-linux&num=11

    Leave a comment:


  • stormcrow
    replied
    Originally posted by sa666666 View Post

    I think that says it all right there. AMD is willing (and has) done great things for open source, and Nvidia (by your own admission) has not. In fact, they are actively hostile towards open source developers. AFAIC, that puts Nvidia out of consideration for Linux. If you're comfortable with proprietary drivers for a huge chunk of your OS, why are you even using Linux? But I guess it's all about "muh games". Typical gamer-only attitude.
    I'm gonna call utter bull here. The gamer crowd which tends to favor Nvidia hardware has as much right to express an opinion and use and ask for support for Linux as zealots like yourself. You're also conveniently leaving out that HPC users vastly out number Linux gamers are almost exclusively Nvidia GPU shops. That's not just scientific compute centers, but also massive clusters for financial high speed transaction computing, engineering compute setups, all use Nvidia GPUs, the proprietary driver/CUDA stack, and Linux. AMD doesn't even have a credible horse in the GPGPU race at this point.

    You can piously mouth about how much AMD is doing for open source and free software, but at the end of the day people have to get work done and AMD GPUs aren't workable for a great many people. In fact, most Linux systems are headless servers or embedded devices and in neither case is the argument about who's doing more in the GPU space even relevant, while many developers don't even bother with discrete GPUs and just use the system's built in Intel GPU, assuming an Intel laptop or desktop.

    The fact of the matter is that AMD didn't even bother doing much testing with any OS other than Windows when Ryzen was released (see the brou-ha-ha over the multithreading crash bugs in the Ryzen initial release revealed via Linux and FreeBSD users and AMD's prolonged silence on it), and those CPUs are far more relevant to the computing industry than AMD GPUs.

    AMD is not the monolith people seem to think, and neither is Intel. Like AMD, Nvidia is neither entirely bad, nor entirely good for open source. They ARE supporting Linux and releasing drivers for the operating system, testing for compatiblity, and suggesting interop concepts. That's more than the vast majority of the computer hardware industry is doing.

    Leave a comment:

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