Nouveau Lands Initial Open-Source NVIDIA Turing Support - But No GPU Acceleration

[phoronix]

Phoronix: Nouveau Lands Initial Open-Source NVIDIA Turing Support - But No GPU Acceleration

Just in time for the upcoming Linux 4.21 kernel, the developers working on the reverse-engineered, open-source support for NVIDA GeForce RTX "Turing" GPUs have published their preliminary code. But before getting too excited, there isn't GPU hardware acceleration working yet...

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Nouveau-Turing-Linux-4.21

[yoshi314]

i don't really think the firmware is coming, ever.

nvidia is probably happy that they control the users through their driver.

[torsionbar28]

i don't really think the firmware is coming, ever.

nvidia is probably happy that they control the users through their driver.

^ This. Its a strategic asset for their business model. Vote with your dollars and support the GPU vendors that support Linux properly, i.e. AMD and intel.

[tildearrow]

Typo:

open-source support for NVIDA GeForce RTX "Turing" GPUs

[cybertraveler]

For Open Source enthusiasts or anyone that likes to have computing choice and freedom: remember that NVIDIA do not force you to buy their products. If you buy an NVIDIA graphics card, you are now doing so with full knowledge that legally-usable, signed firmware for reclocking is not available and NVIDIA have made no promises that it will be made available in the future. Thus if you buy their hardware, you cannot reasonably expect to get decent performance or support for that hardware on Open Source operating systems now or in the future.

There are situations in life where you don't get to choose how to spend your time or resources. This is not one of them. Intel and AMD have provided us with an imperfect, but far better alternative to NVIDIA for desktop graphics. I will buy their products and I will promote them to friends who I know may choose to use Open Source operating systems on their hardware.

If you don't like what NVIDIA are producing, I think it is wise not to give them a cent of your money.

I currently have a Windows-only, gaming machine but I still bought an AMD graphics card for it. NVIDIA will get nothing from me until they deliver legally-unencumbered, signed firmware for re-clocking.

[schmidtbag]

For Open Source enthusiasts or anyone that likes to have computing choice and freedom: remember that NVIDIA do not force you to buy their products. If you buy an NVIDIA graphics card, you are now doing so with full knowledge that legally-usable, signed firmware for reclocking is not available and NVIDIA have made no promises that it will be made available in the future. Thus if you buy their hardware, you cannot reasonably expect to get decent performance or support for that hardware on Open Source operating systems now or in the future.

There are situations in life where you don't get to choose how to spend your time or resources. This is not one of them. Intel and AMD have provided us with an imperfect, but far better alternative to NVIDIA for desktop graphics. I will buy their products and I will promote them to friends who I know may choose to use Open Source operating systems on their hardware.

If you don't like what NVIDIA are producing, I think it is wise not to give them a cent of your money.

I currently have a Windows-only, gaming machine but I still bought an AMD graphics card for it. NVIDIA will get nothing from me until they deliver legally-unencumbered, signed firmware for re-clocking.

Although I agree with the premise of your point, even if every single person who also agreed were to boycott Nvidia for the sake of "legally-unencumbered signed firmware", that isn't going to do anything at all to change Nvidia's ways. The vast majority of Linux users with Nvidia hardware care about the performance and features more than how open-source friendly it is (remember, a lot of those Quadros and Teslas are used in servers, where they don't typically care if something is open source). I'm sure the people who meet your demographic make up a fraction of a percent of their annual sales. I'm sure raytracing's underwhelming performance would have a greater impact on their sales.

I don't mean to be a pessimist, but rather, I'm suggesting something else needs to be done. Unfortunately, as long as AMD's hardware doesn't catch up in performance, I'm not sure there's any effective way to make them change.

[cybertraveler]

Good points schmidtbag.

I wonder how tight the margins for this GPU makers are. If most Open Source enthusiasts decidedly stopped buying NVIDIA hardware in favour of Intel and AMD, that relatively small group of customers may be able to make a difference. Also: we're a noisy bunch. I tend to infect people with my enthusiasm for Open Source and I'm always sure to tell my friends that if they do want to switch from Windows to GNU/Linux in the future, the path will likely be much simpler, less constrained and more assured if they buy AMD or Intel.

Also: I know that even if there aren't enough of us to make a difference now, that may change in the future. Money is the most powerful way of influencing a company. If there is ever to be enough of us to influence their behaviour, then the movement has to start somewhere and with some people.

We've also got some big players on our team now, including Valve. Valve love Open Source platforms. In the future, they might make quite a dent and they will likely be doing it with Intel or AMD, not NVIDIA.

[torsionbar28]

Although I agree with the premise of your point, even if every single person who also agreed were to boycott Nvidia for the sake of "legally-unencumbered signed firmware", that isn't going to do anything at all to change Nvidia's ways. The vast majority of Linux users with Nvidia hardware care about the performance and features more than how open-source friendly it is (remember, a lot of those Quadros and Teslas are used in servers, where they don't typically care if something is open source). I'm sure the people who meet your demographic make up a fraction of a percent of their annual sales. I'm sure raytracing's underwhelming performance would have a greater impact on their sales.

I don't mean to be a pessimist, but rather, I'm suggesting something else needs to be done. Unfortunately, as long as AMD's hardware doesn't catch up in performance, I'm not sure there's any effective way to make them change.

AMD doesn't need to beat Nvidia in terms of absolute performance. There are very few people in the world who can afford an RTX 2080, or even a 1080ti for that matter. AMD doesn't need to compete with that. Steam survey says GTX 1060 is the most widely used gaming card. This is where AMD needs to compete and win - and it's clear that they are. See the Rx 580 and Rx 590 cards which are on par or better than GTX 1060, and at a lower price. See the recent Phoronix benchmark articles where the "performance per dollar" charts are dominated by Rx 580 and Rx 590. AMD absolutely has a winning product line for the average mainstream gamer, which right now today means a $269 price point. Second most popular cards according to Steam survey, are GTX 1050 and GTX 1070. AMD is price/performance competitive there as well, with the Rx 560 and the Vega56/64.

That said, it's not just about the open source geek demographic. As cybertraveler said, choose AMD or intel GPU's everywhere. Recommend them everywhere. Building a Windows Gaming PeeCee? Great, buy an AMD card. Grandma needs a new email terminal? Great, buy AMD APU or intel. Work needs a hundred new PC's for the cubicle dwellers? Recommend your boss to buy AMD or intel as the best choice. The theme here being "vote with your dollars". As the computer expert, FOSS geeks often have influence over the purchasing decisions of friends and family, and for those who make a living working in IT, influence over corporate technology choices. Speaking from experience here - we recently refreshed the CAD workstations at my office, and replaced aging Quadro hardware with new Radeon Pro, per my recommendation. Support the vendors that support FOSS.

[cybertraveler]

torsionbar28 - I love your spirit!

I think that in the long term, our approach will at the very least help sustain the Intel and AMD GPU market. It may even lead to NVIDIA adjusting their behaviour so we can start considering their hardware for purchase too.

I think in general, it's good to personally choose to act in a way that is harmonious with your environment. IE it's good to act in a such a way that if everyone acted like you do, then Earth would be a better place to live because of it.

Also: most the people on this forum are likely "the technical expert" at work, at home or among friends. Those co-workers, family & friends will likely be looking to us for guidance on matters like hardware purchases. This is just like how I will look to a friend of mine for guidance related to food/diet. That's not my area of expertise so I rely on others. So from our place of "expertise", many/most of us on this forum have the power to influence other people (much like you said). So it's not just me not buying NVIDIA, it's me and every single person that looks to me for guidance on technical matters. Of course, I will represent the situation fairly, but I will always tend towards AMD and Intel for graphics; especially when all 3 vendors compare equally.

[schmidtbag]

AMD doesn't need to beat Nvidia in terms of absolute performance. There are very few people in the world who can afford an RTX 2080, or even a 1080ti for that matter. AMD doesn't need to compete with that. Steam survey says GTX 1060 is the most widely used gaming card. This is where AMD needs to compete and win - and it's clear that they are. See the Rx 580 and Rx 590 cards which are on par or better than GTX 1060, and at a lower price. See the recent Phoronix benchmark articles where the "performance per dollar" charts are dominated by Rx 580 and Rx 590. AMD absolutely has a winning product line for the average mainstream gamer, which right now today means a $269 price point. Second most popular cards according to Steam survey, are GTX 1050 and GTX 1070. AMD is price/performance competitive there as well, with the Rx 560 and the Vega56/64.

I completely agree; I think it's worth pointing out I've been using AMD GPUs for my main PCs for years now.

That said, it's not just about the open source geek demographic. As cybertraveler said, choose AMD or intel GPU's everywhere. Recommend them everywhere. Building a Windows Gaming PeeCee? Great, buy an AMD card. Grandma needs a new email terminal? Great, buy AMD APU or intel. Work needs a hundred new PC's for the cubicle dwellers? Recommend your boss to buy AMD or intel as the best choice. The theme here being "vote with your dollars". As the computer expert, FOSS geeks often have influence over the purchasing decisions of friends and family, and for those who make a living working in IT, influence over corporate technology choices. Speaking from experience here - we recently refreshed the CAD workstations at my office, and replaced aging Quadro hardware with new Radeon Pro, per my recommendation. Support the vendors that support FOSS.

Sure, recommending AMD or Intel everywhere, regardless of Linux, is an option. However, I'm not going to do so strictly out of my own personal principles. I may not agree with a lot of things Nvidia does but I'm not about to get someone a worse experience simply because of my own preferences. I have a tendency to recommend AMD simply because of being more cost effective, but I have built PCs that were Intel+Nvidia for people because it was legitimately the best option for them [at the time] including in terms of performance-per-dollar. More often than not, I like to give people an informed decision that they make themselves.